High End (Collings, Lowden etc) or Custom UK Luthier built commission?

dean111music · January 2020

Where would your money go if you had 4-5K to spend?

Shop brought high end or get a luthier to build you a guitar with your specs etc?

Any experiences of getting a custom built guitar and being dissapointed or very happy?

mgaw · January 2020

maybe visit a few shops try a load out then decide...you will have a better idea of what you like that way

Andy79 · January 2020

Custom, plenty here with more knowledge than I but there’s re sale to consider and the biggie for me, you cannot know if you’re going to like it as it’s not built yet.

Wazmeister · January 2020

I wouldn’t.

As some who has spent a small fortune (like many of us I guess), Id look at the cheaper chinese offers too.

Ive just got a B&G Little Sisters Crossroads, and cannot believe how good it is.

Relatively cheap as chips.

dean111music · January 2020

I’m definitely going to play lots of guitars! It’s a lot of money to get wrong

dean111music · January 2020

What about if you try a selection of a luthiers guitars and they seem consistent enough?

i did order a customshop fender strat and that was wank. But acoustic luthiers your getting master built quality?

Better bang for your buck?

Andy79 · January 2020

Get a 50s D28. Bask in its glory then sell it for what you paid before you drop it down the stairs

Andy79 · January 2020

Wazmeister said:

I wouldn’t.

As some who has spent a small fortune (like many of us I guess), Id look at the cheaper chinese offers too.

Ive just got a B&G Little Sisters Crossroads, and cannot believe how good it is.

Relatively cheap as chips.

This is real sense. I’m bored of myself for banging on about it but the quality of sub 1k guitars is astonishing. You just gotta get past the name on the headstock

ToneControl · January 2020

Do you mean acoustics?

I'd normally buy used 80% of the time, but Avalon prices are very attractive, so I do buy new Avalons, including one custom-made

crunchman · January 2020

I would prefer to try first though it would be tempting to go to someone like Brook and custom order something.

Does Alister Atkin still do custom stuff or has he gone larger scale selling standard models through shops? Either way, his guitars would be very high on the list.

Turnstone make some incredible guitars as well.

Lewy · January 2020

Personally because I've only ever had two guitars that I can reliably say are "keepers" I'd never trust myself to go down the luthier new build route. The instant depreciation is just so big. Also, I'm not sure you'd automatically be getting a better guitar compared to one of the high end small shop makers.

But a lot of this depends on design - I really only like the traditional American designs so that's where my thinking comes from. There are of course luthiers who have their own designs and approaches and so if you want that, that's where you've got to go!

earwighoney · January 2020

dean111music said:

Where would your money go if you had 4-5K to spend?

Shop brought high end or get a luthier to build you a guitar with your specs etc?

Any experiences of getting a custom built guitar and being dissapointed or very happy?

Depends really. A custom guitar isn't for everyone, I've had 3 built (2 nylon strings, 1 steel). I'm delighted with each one.

Lewy said:

Personally because I've only ever had two guitars that I can reliably say are "keepers" I'd never trust myself to go down the luthier new build route. The instant depreciation is just so big.

IMO, that's not always true. If you pick wisely, there's a chance the guitar will appreciate, but smaller named makers do carry a lot more risk (more prone to trends), whilst something like a Martin will neverbe out of fashion. Even something like a Taylor, the deprecation on the higher end models is enormous.

Andy79 said:
This is real sense. I’m bored of myself for banging on about it but the quality of sub 1k guitars is astonishing. You just gotta get past the name on the headstock

There are a lot of great guitars around this mark, and the marginal gains over for quality IMO don't make as much difference as one might expect.

dean111music · January 2020

Yes this will be for an acoustic guitar.

Mainly a solo guitar

the sound in my head is close to this

https://youtu.be/z2EXGRsMRIM

Fat, clean and controlled.

the Gerber are 7k plus!

mgaw · January 2020

they sound great though..

mgaw · January 2020

@stuartryanmusic has a Gerber I think?

dean111music · January 2020

mgaw said:

@stuartryanmusic has a Gerber I think?

Yes he has, and it sounds awesome. I have signed up to fingerstyle focus and slot of vids are recorded on that.

mgaw · January 2020

I would buy one tbh be interesting to play one first though

stuartryanmusic · January 2020

I've done so much of this over the years, when dealing with that kind of money I think you have to really think it over a period of months and weigh up ALL the pros and cons. As far as I see it all the options are -

1. Luthier built - long wait, huge expectation, possible disappointment, impossible re-sale OR utter delight and a guitar for life. In essence a gamble, at the very least you have to ask the luthier to round up three or so of their guitars so you can say "aim for that one"
2. One great used American guitar (Santa Cruz etc) and an Eastman or similar. I have an Eastman that retailed for about £1349, it's incredible and has become one of my main recording guitars
3. Buy a used high-end luthier guitar from somewhere like The North American Guitar - a very good option as they have often been hardly played or at the least very well maintained. Let someone else take the initial hit and you get to play it first
4. Vintage Martin or Gibson (probably my choice these days though it depends on what you want it for as these are obviously not modern fingerpicking guitars).

Personally I take little joy in spending this amount of money on instruments these days, they are working tools and I'd genuinely rather keep the money in the bank or invest it. My own instinct is to veer towards 2 or 4 unless you find a guitar at point 3 that you really genuinely love. Really heed the advice about whether it is a keeper or not as anything specialist is typically very hard to sell. My Gerber would sell tomorrow but that's only as there are probably about 5 people worldwide who want one immediately. Who knows, in a few years I may even do that and buy the old D28 for my rocking chair years!

Finally, law of diminishing returns - as you start to go over £5k there is rarely a massive quality/tone leap, it's usually a more expensive tone wood or you are paying a higher hourly rate for someone to build it.

ArchtopDave · January 2020

My two pennies worth is as follows. Firstly, I suspect most people don't have much experience, if any, of ordering a luthier built guitar, and therefore have difficulty in managing their expectations.

I have in the last 12 years, made 3 guitars under the guidance on Mark Bailey on his Build Your Own Guitar Courses, and 18 months or so ago got him to make a guitar for me. Making a guitar yourself, starting blocks of wood, makes you realise how much work goes into making even a fairly basic guitar, and you also learn to appreciate the fact that you do not know exactly how it will sound until you've got the strings on it and played it.

Being not entirely sane, I decided to make an Archtop as my first guitar. They're the most time consuming guitars to make given that you have to turn two sizeable bits of timber into a large pile of expensive sawdust, and two shallow bowls for the Front and Back of the Body. After that, you've got the fun of bending the Sides by hand. However, I learnt a lot, and ended up with a very decent guitar. Subsequently, I made my version of an early Les Paul, which is as good as any of the Les Pauls that I own. Lastly I made an OM sized Acoustic, with which I am really pleased OM Acoustic Build (Mark Bailey Course) (The finished guitar is on Page 6).

I took a bit of a gamble with the guitar that I got Mark to make for me. A custom electric based on a particular style of guitar, that I've never played, but always like the sound of!! I worked out most of the spec myself prior to having a design session with him. It took about 3 hours or so, whilst he did a detailed full sized drawing, and we went over every detail of the spec. Obviously the experience of my guitar builds with him came in very useful.

If you're going to order from a luthier, then you have to accept that, even though each will have their own style in relation to the sound of their guitars, that neither they, nor you, will definitely know what an individual instrument will sound like until the strings are on, and you play it. As noted above, unless the particular luthier has a well known and established name, then resale value can be a problem.

p90fool · January 2020

The only rational reason to spend that budget on a custom build is if nobody in the entire acoustic guitar world has ever made a guitar you like.

If you want a headless, fan-fret banjo/12-string twin-neck made from a carbon fibre/balsa laminate you'll probably need to get one made, but other than that you can afford to try out pretty well any great used guitar in the world and I'm sure one of them is going to speak to your soul.

dean111music · January 2020

stuartryanmusic said:

I've done so much of this over the years, when dealing with that kind of money I think you have to really think it over a period of months and weigh up ALL the pros and cons. As far as I see it all the options are -

1. Luthier built - long wait, huge expectation, possible disappointment, impossible re-sale OR utter delight and a guitar for life. In essence a gamble, at the very least you have to ask the luthier to round up three or so of their guitars so you can say "aim for that one"
2. One great used American guitar (Santa Cruz etc) and an Eastman or similar. I have an Eastman that retailed for about £1349, it's incredible and has become one of my main recording guitars
3. Buy a used high-end luthier guitar from somewhere like The North American Guitar - a very good option as they have often been hardly played or at the least very well maintained. Let someone else take the initial hit and you get to play it first
4. Vintage Martin or Gibson (probably my choice these days though it depends on what you want it for as these are obviously not modern fingerpicking guitars).

Personally I take little joy in spending this amount of money on instruments these days, they are working tools and I'd genuinely rather keep the money in the bank or invest it. My own instinct is to veer towards 2 or 4 unless you find a guitar at point 3 that you really genuinely love. Really heed the advice about whether it is a keeper or not as anything specialist is typically very hard to sell. My Gerber would sell tomorrow but that's only as there are probably about 5 people worldwide who want one immediately. Who knows, in a few years I may even do that and buy the old D28 for my rocking chair years!

Finally, law of diminishing returns - as you start to go over £5k there is rarely a massive quality/tone leap, it's usually a more expensive tone wood or you are paying a higher hourly rate for someone to build it.

golden info there @stuartryanmusic thanks again.

Im going to try a load of guitars over the next few months and have some fun! I think i have been watching too many videos and not playing them!

I have tried many guitars in the past and I find I don't lean towards the Mass produced american guitars. The best guitar I have every play was a Richard Osbourne Guitar. His retail at £3400 so reasonable priced for hand built guitar to match your sound. I have played three of his and all have been very good. Not a bad one.

But i might go and try some Eastman guitars, Atkin, Collings, Santa Cruz, Martin and Taylor etc

big question! Is there any guitars out there that can match or get close to that Gerber?

malcolmkindness · January 2020

I think my Poljakov can sound rather like that. You can find them at TFOA. In fact, I would highly recommend a weekend at TFOA in the Netherlands, you are sure to play something you like new or used, and they are great people to deal with.

jakeolly · January 2020

Pm,d

artiebear · January 2020

Firstly @stuartryanmusic has already given fantastic advice,Secondly, if you are going down the road of a luthier ( bloody hell don't use that term to Roger Bucknall of Fylde

) it is vital that there is a real dialogue taking place. I have a quite a few guitars that are "luthier built" but in every case the builder knew my playing, my terminology and my preferences, either (mostly) before or early in the discussions. The result is everyone is happy. No guitar maker wants to work hard creating something they believe is worthy of their craft, only to be given bad press on social media down line due to a misunderstanding in terminology and relationship, therefore everyone is careful. Judging by your previous posts and questions. you will be a discernible guy with whom any decent luthier will enjoy discourse. It's a fun process.

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High End (Collings, Lowden etc) or Custom UK Luthier built commission?

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