Setting up an acoustic

imalrightjack · July 2019

Hello all,

I’ve just picked up a very much unloved Faith Hi-Gloss Neptune (full acoustic). It was filthy, had ancient corroded strings and has a few body dings - but following a clean up, it can definitely be a nice guitar again. However, I’m not sure where to start in terms of set up. The action is okay at the nut but progressively gets higher. I strung it with acoustic 11s just to get some tension back on the neck after cleaning but was planning on putting 12s on, as factory. I imagine these will make the action worse?

First, the nut is loose and held by the strings only. Superglue?

Any general principles to bear in mind? Truss adjustment? Relief amount? Shaving some of the bridge, if required?

Thanks!

Roland · July 2019

Moved to the Acoustics section

TimmyO · July 2019

It may be as simple as a small truss rod tweak, but may need more. I'd not re-glue the nut until you know more - you may end up wanting a new one or that one re-cut.

I'd start by putting the intended gauge strings on, tuning to pitch, and see if a small truss rod adjustment brings things back into line

earwighoney · July 2019

imalrightjack said:

Hello all,

I’ve just picked up a very much unloved Faith Hi-Gloss Neptune (full acoustic). It was filthy, had ancient corroded strings and has a few body dings - but following a clean up, it can definitely be a nice guitar again. However, I’m not sure where to start in terms of set up. The action is okay at the nut but progressively gets higher. I strung it with acoustic 11s just to get some tension back on the neck after cleaning but was planning on putting 12s on, as factory. I imagine these will make the action worse?

First, the nut is loose and held by the strings only. Superglue?

Any general principles to bear in mind? Truss adjustment? Relief amount? Shaving some of the bridge, if required?

Thanks!

Surely you mean shaving off the saddle and not the bridge?

Shaving the bridge is quite a serious mod to an acoustic guitar.

imalrightjack · July 2019

earwighoney said:

imalrightjack said:

Hello all,

I’ve just picked up a very much unloved Faith Hi-Gloss Neptune (full acoustic). It was filthy, had ancient corroded strings and has a few body dings - but following a clean up, it can definitely be a nice guitar again. However, I’m not sure where to start in terms of set up. The action is okay at the nut but progressively gets higher. I strung it with acoustic 11s just to get some tension back on the neck after cleaning but was planning on putting 12s on, as factory. I imagine these will make the action worse?

First, the nut is loose and held by the strings only. Superglue?

Any general principles to bear in mind? Truss adjustment? Relief amount? Shaving some of the bridge, if required?

Thanks!

Surely you mean shaving off the saddle and not the bridge?

Shaving the bridge is quite a serious mod to an acoustic guitar.

You’ll be right!

Thanks, guys.

ICBM · July 2019

Superglue is OK for the nut, if you use a *tiny* amount - you don't want to overdo it, it risks squeezing out at the sides and damaging the finish, and making it very difficult to get the nut off if you ever need to. (Although it can be done, and is not a reason not to use superglue at all.) A couple of small spots on the floor of the pocket and a couple on the end face of the fingerboard is usually enough.

If you don't want to use it, wood glue is fine - white PVA or Titebond - it won't bond properly to the nut, but enough to hold it in place. You can use more and wipe off the excess easily since it won't react with the finish.

As TimmyO said, it's best not to do either until you know the nut doesn't need replacing. The string tension will hold it in place well enough to find out... in fact some makers prefer to not use glue at all, and you generally only find out when you take all the strings off!

imalrightjack · July 2019

Any general advice on where the action should be and differences between nut/12th/further up, etc. to gauge what might be best adjusted?

ESBlonde · July 2019

The geometry of the guitar is set by the position of the nut in relation to the fingerboard and the top of the bridge saddle. Typically a nudge on the truss rod is enough to get a guitar back to ideal playing if it has indeed been a great player in the past (as I think a faith would have been). But it is just possible that the soundboard or front of the guitar has 'bellied up' rather than being fairly flat. When this happens the top end of the fingerboard goes down in relation to the raised bridge. This could be because of a loose internal strut or similar. So eye up across the front of the guitar to make sure it is reasonably flat so you can discount that.

Next eye down or up the edges of the fingerboard to see if they are straight or if the middle dips or raises. that tells you the status of the truss rod/neck relief.

Once these things appear to be normal, then you can start to consider the possibility of shaving the bridge saddle (or replacing it with a new blank shaped to suit).

You can do some basic assessment and then let us know/show us photos, wherupon we can give specific help, or you might decide to give it to a trusted luthier.

Anyway we are a nosey bunch, so piccies always help ;-)

ToneControl · July 2019

you can check if the truss rod needs adjusting without changing anything:

http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/repair/acoustic-guitar/truss-rod.php
says:

Checking Relief Using The Strings

Fret the string on the 1st and last fret of the neck.
Measure the gap between the string and top of 7th fret. (14 fret neck)
More commonly we use the string itself as a straightedge.
Fret the string at the 1st and last fret. Measure the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the 7th fret.
A capo can be used on the first fret to free up one hand.
A large gap will indicate the neck has too much relief and the rod may require tightening to straighten the neck.
No gap may indicate the neck is dead flat of backbowed which may require loosening the truss rod to add relief.
What does it mean if there is no gap? If no gap is seen between the bottom of the string and the top of the fret then either the neck is dead flat or it is back bowed.

It's even easier - look at the photo - if he taps the string with his first or second finger on the right hand (i.e. halfway between the body/neck joint and the first fret) then if he can feel it just move a tiny bit before it hits the fret, then there is some relief.
If it moves loads before impact, it's too much relief, If it's already touching, there is not enough relief

if too much relief, tighten the truss rod a little, and vice versa

next issue is the nut
look at the string over the first fret, then fret it there and look at it over the second fret
is the distance way less over the second fret? if it's half or less than half, you probably need the nut adjusting

There are standard action heights at the 12th fret
I like Bass 2.25mm; Treble 1.75mm

The Stew mac site suggests 2.3mm / 1.8mm

To measure, you can try a ruler, but really buy one of these

there are many brands, this one is £5 from amazon

I keep a plastic version in my wallet:

These are not quite so accurate, but you can see roughly where the action should be
Mine measures action slightly lower than it is (02.5mm to 0.5mm)

I had a GEWA one that was more accurate but lost it

If the action is too high, you sand off the bottom of the saddle
Look up some youtube videos to avoid screwing it up
1mm off the bottom will drop the action between 0.5mm and 1mm. Should be 0.5mm really, depends on the neck angle I think

Do a tiny bit at a time

https://www.wikihow.com/Lower-the-Action-on-an-Acoustic-Guitar

drofluf · July 2019

@ToneControl thanks that looks a really useful tool that until now I didn’t know existed. Found one on the Bay of Evil for under £2

GTC · July 2019

There's a lot of good advice here. I'd just add that if you find it is a lot easier to play on the lower part of the neck with a capo then it is likely that careful nut adjustment would benefit playability. I've found that the great majority of new guitars I've bought have benefitted from careful lowering of the nut slots.

ToneControl · July 2019

GTC said:

There's a lot of good advice here. I'd just add that if you find it is a lot easier to play on the lower part of the neck with a capo then it is likely that careful nut adjustment would benefit playability. I've found that the great majority of new guitars I've bought have benefitted from careful lowering of the nut slots.

good idea for an easy test

OP: adjusting the nut is a tricky task and takes time, a lot of makers avoid the risk of cutting the slots too low (which adds buzzing), by addig a wide margin of error. Also some strings can catch in nuts and cause tuning problems until you get them fixed by a pro (cough cough Gibson electrics)

GTC · July 2019

ToneControl said:
OP: adjusting the nut is a tricky task and takes time, a lot of makers avoid the risk of cutting the slots too low (which adds buzzing), by addig a wide margin of error. Also some strings can catch in nuts and cause tuning problems until you get them fixed by a pro (cough cough Gibson electrics)

I fully agree - like most adjustments it needs to be done carefully and incrementally as you can easily overdo it. I usually get a trusted pro (who has a decent set of Hosco nut files) to do mine but I have tried it myself on cheaper guitars using those gas nozzle file sets which you can buy for £5 or so on eBay or Amazon. For lowering existing slots they do work but it takes time and effort to get it right. There are plenty of YouTube videos to help.

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Setting up an acoustic

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