Celtic / Traditional Acoustic Playing

thomasross20 · July 2019

Just came across this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOG-jzoinSA

I've been doing a few "Scottish" songs myself but nothing like the above.
Love it. Do many folk on here play this style?

stimpsonslostson · July 2019

I love Kris Drever

He's a brilliant guitarist & singer.

And the more experimental stuff he does with Lau.

earwighoney · July 2019

No guitar, but this song is superb. An Irish folk song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCEN82Y3a6s

He plays guitar on his album though, which is superb.

earwighoney · July 2019

One more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3dJHy7mDck

TimmyO · July 2019

thomasross20 said:

I've been doing a few "Scottish" songs myself but nothing like the above.

500 miles? :-)

thomasross20 · July 2019

Not that one lol

Will check those out next week at work!

blobb · July 2019

Funny, I'm trying to put together my own version of Martin's version of Sovay. His tuning is a strange one to work with but his rhythm style is brilliant. Mine, not so!

Anyhows, link to another similar thread. What tuning are you using?

BahHumbug · July 2019

For some reason Celtic music doesn’t appeal to me greatly. The OP video tune is really pleasant and I’d be tempted have a go at it, but it doesn’t really light my fire.

+1 for Kris Drever though, his work in Lau (and his last solo album ‘If Wishes were Horses’), writing, singing great and playing, is absolutely breathtaking. Lau take the idea of Celtic music and turn it into something quite different.

Rocker · July 2019

Horslips did something similar way back in the 1970s. Worth checking out...

MagicPigDetective · July 2019

Gareth Bonello aka Gentle Good is a very good fingerpicker in a traditional Welsh stylee

https://youtu.be/_Jlxs07QBxY

https://youtu.be/ygVzc1QrUiY

I’d like to get into this style but it would take a lot of fingerpicking practice

earwighoney · July 2019

One more, one of the older examples of solo Celtic playing by the guy who is accredited with inventing DADGAD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9XkWbKBs80

thermionic · July 2019

MagicPigDetective said:

Gareth Bonello aka Gentle Good is a very good fingerpicker in a traditional Welsh stylee

I love Gareth Bonello’s playing, but is there such a thing as a traditional Welsh style for this kind of thing? In the same way as Irish or Scottish? I’ve listened to Welsh music of all sorts all my life, so I probably can’t see a uniqueness that somebody unfamiliar with the music might.

Also, shoutout to National Treasure and all-round legend Meic Stevens, who is clearly a big influence on Gareth Bonello:

https://youtu.be/vPxPQwcEXvM

TimmyO · July 2019

thermionic said:

MagicPigDetective said:

Gareth Bonello aka Gentle Good is a very good fingerpicker in a traditional Welsh stylee

I love Gareth Bonello’s playing, but is there such a thing as a traditional Welsh style for this kind of thing? In the same way as Irish or Scottish? I’ve listened to Welsh music of all sorts all my life, so I probably can’t see a uniqueness that somebody unfamiliar with the music might.

Also, shoutout to National Treasure and all-round legend Meic Stevens, who is clearly a big influence on Gareth Bonello:

https://youtu.be/vPxPQwcEXvM

I'm no expert, but I think it's one of those styles that as you get back that far the influences merge - there's stuff in French (Breton) music that you'd swear was a gnats width away from being what we'd call Scottish or Irish so I suspect that the migration patterns of those influencing the music of the time were quite different to what we think of today.

Similar (but different music) to the similarities between the fife and drum stuff in the US that has obvious sounding connections to later American styles yet sounds so different to the Malawian music that parallel developed from the same source.

VimFuego · July 2019

thermionic said:

MagicPigDetective said:

Gareth Bonello aka Gentle Good is a very good fingerpicker in a traditional Welsh stylee

I love Gareth Bonello’s playing, but is there such a thing as a traditional Welsh style for this kind of thing? In the same way as Irish or Scottish? I’ve listened to Welsh music of all sorts all my life, so I probably can’t see a uniqueness that somebody unfamiliar with the music might.

Also, shoutout to National Treasure and all-round legend Meic Stevens, who is clearly a big influence on Gareth Bonello:

https://youtu.be/vPxPQwcEXvM

it's a good question, and during the various folk revivals there's been a lot of attention paid to English, Scottish and Irish trad music and styles, and they all are fairly recognisable, but not a lot paid to Welsh music. Part of me wonders if it's due to Wales being the longest conquered nation and having suffered a longer cultural oppression. Then coupled with the industrial revolution, where large numbers of rural people were concentrated in the new industrial areas which led to an abandoning of traditional music (something that also happened in England). I do know that those areas in England that retained traditional music until the modern era for the collectors like Cecil Sharpe and Baring Gould, were the NE and the SW (oddly enough, you also see little Cornish music being collected, possibly due to the Cornish diaspora). Maybe the collectors didn't think Wales was worth their efforts.
With all that said, found this which has some really nice tunes and top notch playing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AkyNJZp_Rs

MagicPigDetective · July 2019

Interesting discussion, I’ll try to give my take on it later....

earwighoney · July 2019

VimFuego said:

thermionic said:

MagicPigDetective said:

Gareth Bonello aka Gentle Good is a very good fingerpicker in a traditional Welsh stylee

I love Gareth Bonello’s playing, but is there such a thing as a traditional Welsh style for this kind of thing? In the same way as Irish or Scottish? I’ve listened to Welsh music of all sorts all my life, so I probably can’t see a uniqueness that somebody unfamiliar with the music might.

Also, shoutout to National Treasure and all-round legend Meic Stevens, who is clearly a big influence on Gareth Bonello:

https://youtu.be/vPxPQwcEXvM

it's a good question, and during the various folk revivals there's been a lot of attention paid to English, Scottish and Irish trad music and styles, and they all are fairly recognisable, but not a lot paid to Welsh music. Part of me wonders if it's due to Wales being the longest conquered nation and having suffered a longer cultural oppression. Then coupled with the industrial revolution, where large numbers of rural people were concentrated in the new industrial areas which led to an abandoning of traditional music (something that also happened in England). I do know that those areas in England that retained traditional music until the modern era for the collectors like Cecil Sharpe and Baring Gould, were the NE and the SW (oddly enough, you also see little Cornish music being collected, possibly due to the Cornish diaspora). Maybe the collectors didn't think Wales was worth their efforts.
With all that said, found this which has some really nice tunes and top notch playing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AkyNJZp_Rs

Not had a chance to listen to the ones for Wales but the Alan Lomax Archives are exceptional

Here's the one for Wales
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-ix.do?ix=recording&id=WL&idType=countryCode&sortBy=abc

Woodandwires · July 2019

Check out if you haven't already, Pierre Bensusan.

thomasross20 · July 2019

Yeah Pierre bensusan is great.
Clive Carrol.
Etc.
I go through phases, it's just the first time I thought .. it'd be cool to have a showpiece of this type

Chris_J · July 2019

Has anyone mentioned Tony McManus yet?

Some beautiful arrangements of Celtic tunes and technique and musicality to die for.

BigLicks67 · July 2019

There's an old Richard Thompson tab book that features a lot of Scots/Irish stuff such as Banish Misfortune, McClouds Reel, Maggie Cameron, Strathspey & Dargai might be worth getting hold of.

blobb · July 2019

thermionic said:

I love Gareth Bonello’s playing, but is there such a thing as a traditional Welsh style for this kind of thing? In the same way as Irish or Scottish? I’ve listened to Welsh music of all sorts all my life, so I probably can’t see a uniqueness that somebody unfamiliar with the music might.

Try Ar Log. Hang on, that sounds like the whole band name and it's not. Ar Log, that's the group - try them. Try Ar Log. Does that make sense?

B*llocks, here you go....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UciFCfdNZHw

blobb · July 2019

Re: Meic Stevens, my welsh teacher at school had a poster of him on his door. When the whole Welsh Nationalist thing was big (burning holiday cottages etc...) my teacher was sent to prison for bending TV aerials (!), it was to do with whether we got a Welsh version of the then soon to be launched Channel 4 tv station. When he got out of jail he was welcomed straight back into his old job and treated like a hero. We ended up with S4C instead of Ch4. So we got SuperTed in Welsh and Sam Tan instead of Fireman Sam. Who says terrorism doesn't pay? I think Meic was big amongst the Nationalists, sort of like their protest singer.

Ar Log were more a Welsh folk revival thing, lot's of harp tunes brought up to date.

thermionic · July 2019

Yes, Ar Lôg are the typical jig & reel tradition with guitar just as a rhythmic background to harp & fiddle etc. There's a few bands playing that kind of stuff now, most notably the supergroup Pendevig.

Where did you go to school by the way?

MagicPigDetective · July 2019

This discussion has had me thinking deeply all day about Welsh music and history., of which I’m no expert but have read a lot on and interests me greatly. I do think there’s a Welsh style of folk/trad, it has survived. But it’s in many different forms. Going back to medieval times, Wales had a very sophisticated musical tradition based on the bardic tradition and the harp. Check out this video about the Robert ap Huw manuscript from the 1600’s which records late medieval music. Paul Dooley has brought it back to life, it sounds other wordly. Also note the links with Ireland in setting musical rules etc.

Check out these two tunes, the second one sounds, dare I say it, modal?

This tradition where the upper class sponsored the bards died out in the 17C as the gentry became anglicised. The common folk carried on... folk songs and ballads were popular in the 18/19 century, all over the UK. Cerys Matthews made a very interesting programme on S4C on these; at the time songs were a way of spreading news, songsheets sold like crazy and spread around the country . In Wales they were given new words in a different language. Also many original songs, who knows where they came from. I sense a melancholic Welshness in these ballads, eg, Dafydd y Garreg Wen. Of no doubt the folk had their own tunes, reels and songs, played dance and sang, to be drunk and merry, use of harps and fiddles. But, I do think that religion plays it’s part. In the late 18C and 19C there was a non conformist boom with chapels appearing everywhere. People became extremely religious , turning away from, drinking and having a damn good time. Of course this brought in a new musical tradition, hymns, which probably led to the male voice choir tradition. In the industrial valleys male voice choirs and brass bands became popular. In rural areas older traditions held on in some areas. But it was disappearing in the 19C, coupled with land clearances of common land, people leaving rural areas for the coal mines etc. This is when songs and dances began to be recored. This era ties in with the wider romanticisation of celtica, it’s reinvention and interpretation, as happened in Scotland. A lot of folk traditions survive due to the Eisteddfod tradition of competing, though I do think they are sanitized versions of the original folk styles. Since the 60’s Wales has been re interpreting its traditions , just like Ireland and Scotland, brining in new influences, mixing with rock etc. There were many similarities with folk traditions in the British Isle. But as to what makes Wales’s music different, the following link gets all theoretical and discusses it’s use of major, minor, lydian and dorian scales, and less of pentatonic used in Ireland/scotland. Perhaps this gives it a different flavour. https://edcox.co.uk/about-me/research/welsh-traditional-music/ Welsh trad music is not as widely know as Irish and Scottish, perhaps because it is strongly connected to our language. Perhaps it’s due to Welsh folk’s tendency to assimilate when migrating to another country... I think the main tradition remains singing over playing instruments. As recorded by Gerald of Wales in the 12th century, when a choir sang they all did in different harmonies ie it was polyphonic. Welsh people still love to sing (not me though!) Kind of rambled on here.....

blobb · July 2019

thermionic said:

Where did you go to school by the way?

Mid Wales - but closer to North Wales and not all that far from Aberystwyth. Think teach was more to do with Cymdeithas yr Iaith than Meibion Glyndwr.

@MagicPigDetective nice ramble. Have to say it was all a bit force fed to us in school, sort of took away some of the natural beauty if you ask me. They were hell bent on promoting the survival of the culture and language and to some extent I think this worked against the whole movement. Later on in life, I'm finding the whole thing a lot more interesting. Just wish they had let it take it's natural course, Eisteddfod became a bit of a running joke. My first band was an entry in our School Eisteddfod 'Open' Category. We swore a lot (and got the biggest cheer of the day). Compare that to my primary school headmistress who was a full on Welsh harpist, her daughter (who must only have been 10 at most) was amazing. Probably the biggest music influence on my life seeing her play in morning assembly. I loved traditional Welsh music until The Urdd spoiled it.

But we digress.....

thermionic · July 2019

Great analysis @MagicPigDetective - diolch! I was going to mention the role of the religious revivals in surpressing folk traditions, but never thought about hymns replacing folk songs so directly.

The thing with Welsh music for me is that it’s not a genre. There are just so many great bands and artists around that just do their own thing, but just naturally do it in their first language.

VimFuego · July 2019

thanks for that @MagicPigDetective ; I must confess my knowledge of Welsh music is poor, it still doesn't seem to the attention it deserves. What little I've heard I really like, much more melodic than listening to yet another sub riverdance jig played at 200BPM band.

thermionic · July 2019

Well, Meic Stevens is cancelled.

He made some ill-judged Islamophobic "joke" at the weekend and he's been pulled from 2 if not 3 high-profile gigs in the next month or so.

Kittyfrisk · July 2019

Rocker said:

Horslips did something similar way back in the 1970s. Worth checking out...

Bloody hell. Thought for a while I was the only other person to have heard of Horslips

The Tain was brilliant, I was always surprised at their lack of success.

Stuckfast · July 2019

I play traditional music (mostly English and Scottish, and mostly songs rather than tunes) and accompany it on guitar in a third-rate Martin Carthy / Nic Jones-esque way. But it should be remembered that the guitar is not a traditional folk instrument in any way, shape or form on this side of the Atlantic. It's only since the 1950s that it's become ubiquitous.

TheBigDipper · July 2019

Kittyfrisk said:

Rocker said:

Horslips did something similar way back in the 1970s. Worth checking out...

Bloody hell. Thought for a while I was the only other person to have heard of Horslips
The Tain was brilliant, I was always surprised at their lack of success.

They did Roundhouse Sunday’s a few times in the 70s and were always good.

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