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UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45

Paul Simon and twelve strings

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TedTed Frets: 126
in Acoustics
Given that when Simon wrote and recorded 'Mrs Robinson' 12 strings must have been in their infancy does anyone know what model he used.

And how would he get him to leave it/sell it to me?

Because when he dies there a strong possibility that it he will haunt it with his spiritual mojo (which might make up for my shortcomings as a guitarist)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 69426
    12-strings have been around since at least the 1930s. Leadbelly played them, usually Stellas.

    I would guess that Paul Simon played a Martin or a Gibson, although I have no idea really. Martin made the D12-20 from 1964 onwards and the D12-35 from 1965, so it could easily have been one of those.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • markvmarkv Frets: 449
    A Guild in this, I think:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HQ2j-SGBZk

    My trading feedback
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  • Andy79Andy79 Frets: 881
    Pretty sure he used Guilds until the mid 70s when he started using Yamaha 
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  • Andy79Andy79 Frets: 881
    Ok. There’s photos of either an F212 or F312 and a separate one of a F412. 
    You want his? Just ask him. 
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  • TedTed Frets: 126
    Thank you/
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  • earwighoneyearwighoney Frets: 3380
    Andy79 said:
    Ok. There’s photos of either an F212 or F312 and a separate one of a F412. 
    You want his? Just ask him. 
    The F312 is my holy grail guitar, but they seem ridiculously elusive in the UK.  
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 15603
    ICBM said:
    12-strings have been around since at least the 1930s. Leadbelly played them, usually Stellas.

    I would guess that Paul Simon played a Martin or a Gibson, although I have no idea really. Martin made the D12-20 from 1964 onwards and the D12-35 from 1965, so it could easily have been one of those.
    IIRC Leadbelly was known as The King of the 12 String Guitar. Somewhere in the back of my head I have the idea that he tuned down as far as C in order to make them playable ( how heavy guitar strings would have been in the 1930s).  Pete Seeger was using a 12 string in the 1950s and Simon must have been well aware of him even if he didn't know Leadbelly.

    Not what I was looking for but an article here on Pete's guitar, made for him in the UK by Stanley Francis

     https://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/battleship-look-pete-seegers-booming-12-stringer-guitar/

    Sorry, none of this helps with the original question but 12 strings are an interesting niche. I've been listening to some of The Byrds recently because I was interested in Clarence White but it's McGuin's 12 string work that leaps out. 



    I’ll handle this Violet, you take your three hour break. 
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  • Andy79Andy79 Frets: 881
    edited April 2019
    Leadbelly, Mctell, BBQ Bob etc tuned theirs way down for maybe a couple of reasons. Those Stella jumbos have a 26.5” scale and are braced the same as the 6s so turning down was a must. Also they used rats tails for strings and in pairs too, not octaves. The tone is to die for  The later Harmony 12 jumbos get close to it at a tenth the cost. A far cry from Simons sweet tones
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  • earwighoneyearwighoney Frets: 3380
    Andy79 said:
    Leadbelly, Mctell, BBQ Bob etc tuned theirs way down for maybe a couple of reasons. Those Stella jumbos have a 26.5” scale and are braced the same as the 6s so turning down was a must. Also they used rats tails for strings and in pairs too, not octaves. The tone is to die for  The later Harmony 12 jumbos get close to it at a tenth the cost. A far cry from Simons sweet tones
    A kid on another forum I frequent (I write kid as he's only 19 or so!) made a Leadbelly style repro for his first ever build!  

    http://www.acousticsoundboard.co.uk/thread/10193/bessie-ladder-braced-12-string


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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 13312
    Ted said:
    Given that ...
    Given that this is a hypothetical question, when Paul Simon dies, I suggest that you forget his guitars. Snag control of his music publishing.
    Be seeing you.
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  • TedTed Frets: 126
    Funkfingers said:
    Ted said:
    Given that ...
    Given that this is a hypothetical question, when Paul Simon dies, I suggest that you forget his guitars. Snag control of his music publishing.
    Good advice, naturally .... except I am sure Mr Simon is wise enough to have already got good legal and commercial advice on how to ensure
    that his song rights are packaged and managed for the benefit of his immediate family(and whatever other beneficiaries he selects) after his death.

    So bottom line I don't think it's worth trying.  
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  • Andy79Andy79 Frets: 881
    earwighoney said:
    Andy79 said:
    Leadbelly, Mctell, BBQ Bob etc tuned theirs way down for maybe a couple of reasons. Those Stella jumbos have a 26.5” scale and are braced the same as the 6s so turning down was a must. Also they used rats tails for strings and in pairs too, not octaves. The tone is to die for  The later Harmony 12 jumbos get close to it at a tenth the cost. A far cry from Simons sweet tones
    A kid on another forum I frequent (I write kid as he's only 19 or so!) made a Leadbelly style repro for his first ever build!  

    http://www.acousticsoundboard.co.uk/thread/10193/bessie-ladder-braced-12-string


    Fine job on both counts is that 
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  • SimpleSimonSimpleSimon Frets: 1005
    I tried a very playable and pocket friendly Epiphone DR212 in Rich Tone, i was very impressed with both the sound and playability/feel. 

     

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