Classical guitar intonation & comp saddle

grappagreen · October 2018

Hi all,

About to change a plastic saddle on a classical to bone as part of a reserection project on a guitar my wife bought me years ago.

I’ve messed with the existing saddle to get an idea of the improvement in action I can get which is great however I’ve noticed that from an intonation perspective the guitar seems to be ok when comparing 12th fret harmonics to open strings but sharp if the note is fretted at the 12th. The G string is the worst by a mile.

Strings are new and action pretty low so don’t think this is a factor.

I was going to cut a compensated saddle but not sure where to start to improve the sharp 12th fret issue. I can live with everything but the G which sounds terrible sour..

Any advice welcome.

Regards,

Si

Winny_Pooh · October 2018

12 fret harmonic to open does effectively nothing. Its open/harmonic to the fretted note you intonate against.

How you do this with steel string guitars is to have your saddle blank in place and put a bit of plain string on the saddle and move it back and forth till correct. Then mark the spot and cut the saddle at that point. How this differs with Nylon you'll have to research.

If the G string is really sharp you may have to have a saddle that overhangs on the back (on string through side) to give a big enough adjustment.

I had a similar issue to fix on a Taylor

grappagreen · October 2018

@Winny_Pooh - super helpful. Appreciate the post.

Si

earwighoney · October 2018

grappagreen said:

Hi all,

About to change a plastic saddle on a classical to bone as part of a reserection project on a guitar my wife bought me years ago.

I’ve messed with the existing saddle to get an idea of the improvement in action I can get which is great however I’ve noticed that from an intonation perspective the guitar seems to be ok when comparing 12th fret harmonics to open strings but sharp if the note is fretted at the 12th. The G string is the worst by a mile.

Strings are new and action pretty low so don’t think this is a factor.

I was going to cut a compensated saddle but not sure where to start to improve the sharp 12th fret issue. I can live with everything but the G which sounds terrible sour..

Any advice welcome.

Regards,

Si

When it comes to compensation, how wide is your saddle? If it's a really narrow one, then an intonated saddle could prove to be tricky.

Have you tried strings of a different tension? I found for one particular guitar, the intonation was a lot sharper with higher tension strings but seemed a lot better with lower tension ones.

grappagreen · October 2018

@earwighoney - thanks for this.

My bone saddle is wider so I’m going to shape it to fit into the slot and sit into the back of the bridge which will hopefully provide enough width.

I’m also popping graphite trebles on which should improve the situation a little as well.

Si

ICBM · October 2018

File a ridge on the top that starts from the front edge at the treble end and ends up at the back edge in the middle of the saddle.

It seems to be very hard to find a picture of one like that, but if you follow this idea, this is exactly how I do steel-string saddles - although this one is not mine, I would never have left those horrible bridge pins!

http://www.strangeguitarworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/IMG_1220.jpg

For a nylon-string, instead of doing one angled ridge under the top two and another under the bottom four, do one under the top three and keep the wound strings all at the front edge.

That will get you at least 90% of the way there.

grappagreen · October 2018

@ICBM - super. Really appreciate the help..

Si

grappagreen · October 2018

After a couple of enjoyable hours today here it is

Bit difficult to see but it's much better intonated and plays nicely across the whole neck. Sounds better than the crap bit of plastic as well!

Si

Phil_aka_Pip · October 2018

Just as a matter of interest (maybe) I have a guitar with saddles made from the stuff that kitchen fitters use between sections of worktop. Luthier Colin says "It works very easily". We both think the tone of the guitar he used it on has improved too.

ICBM · October 2018

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Just as a matter of interest (maybe) I have a guitar with saddles made from the stuff that kitchen fitters use between sections of worktop. Luthier Colin says "It works very easily". We both think the tone of the guitar he used it on has improved too.

I could be wrong, but I think that’s the same material as Corian, which is what Martin among others use for nuts and saddles.

ToneControl · October 2018

check the nut first

if you tune the string, then check pitch at the first fret

ToneControl · October 2018

I vaguely remember something about nylon strings having lower tension means they are not as sensitive to needing correction, since stretching them does not change the pitch as much. Is that right?

grappagreen · October 2018

Intersting - I read that Corian can be used and I have some of this left over after our kitchen work. Might have a go at a nut out of that..

S

ICBM · October 2018

ToneControl said:

I vaguely remember something about nylon strings having lower tension means they are not as sensitive to needing correction, since stretching them does not change the pitch as much. Is that right?

Not quite - as grappagreen has found they still do need compensation to intonate really right, especially on the G string - even though most classical guitars don't have it. It's partly because classical guitars usually have a very high action compared to a steel-string, so although the string is not as tension-sensitive as steel, it's being bent a lot further to reach the fret.

A lot of classicals do now come with a notched saddle for the G.

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Classical guitar intonation & comp saddle

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