Buying Nylon String Guitar in Spain Help?

gibsongretschfan · July 2018

Was wondering if there’s any bargains to be had or brands/makers to look out for if buying a guitar in Spain? I’m in the Murcia region and the instrument would stay out here. Any knowledge or opinions welcome

meltedbuzzbox · July 2018

Not sure you will find a bargain (you're probably better off watching ebay as used classical guitars depreciate quicker than a Godin guitar).
This guy makes an awesome classical http://www.burguet.com/eng/amalioburguet.html

or something like a mid level Yamaha could be good. CTX if you want traditional nut size and NTX if you want something closer to a steel strung acoustic

DulcetJones · July 2018

A classical or flamenco? I can't help you with deals but in case you don't know the details, flamenco guitars are usually built with much lighter woods(weight wise) and usually have "tap plates", either clear or white stick on pick guards that are there to protect the top when flamenco players use the "golpe" or tap effect for percussion. They often have lower action as well.

notanon · July 2018

Flamenco are designed to sustain less too aren't they?

DulcetJones · July 2018

notanon said:

Flamenco are designed to sustain less too aren't they?

I'm not sure it's a design function but because of the lower action and probably other factors in the construction they do tend to sustain a bit less. The lower action often causes a bit of string buzz that is considered to be a percussive element of the music by some. I had a lower end flamenco guitar for a number of years, I bought it new and the action was so low I had them tweak the truss rod a bit to raise it so I could also play classical pieces on it. It sound OK for classical but not as good as my Takemine classical.

heavyrocker · July 2018

What’s your budget? Picado are a good buy for mid-range. You might be able to visit their workshop and buy direct if you contact them.

Be aware that in Spain it’s quite common for guitars to be made in the factory of a cheaper brand and then a more expensive brand slaps their label on it. You’ll probably get more knowledgable people on the Delcamp classical guitar forum. I’m sure this question will have been asked loads of times on there.

heavyrocker · July 2018

notanon said:

Flamenco are designed to sustain less too aren't they?

Generally speaking yes, but many modern Flamenco players play guitar that have a more refined sound and are equally good for playing classical guitar. They are usually called ‘negras’, meaning they are built from darker woods that are usually used for classical guitars like rosewood, whereas traditional ‘blancas’ are made from cypress and spruce.

lento · July 2018

M.G. Contreras is a well-respected classical and Flamenco guitar from Madrid. The vintage models are very expensive as they are held in such high regard. Craftsmanship is second to none !

Creed_Clicks · July 2018

There's an English guy making high end ones in La Herradura. (Stephen Hill). Maybe he could advise? Some don't have truss rods. I'm in Ireland and picked up a nice used nylon and it doesn't have a truss rod. I'm not sure, in the Irish climate, if it could be a problem, but it's ok for now. The recent warm weather didn't help, that's for sure.
I also noticed some shops in Granada that would build you a guitar there, but I never checked prices and wouldn't know what they would be like quality wise.

heavyrocker · July 2018

Creed_Clicks said:

There's an English guy making high end ones in La Herradura. (Stephen Hill). Maybe he could advise? Some don't have truss rods. I'm in Ireland and picked up a nice used nylon and it doesn't have a truss rod. I'm not sure, in the Irish climate, if it could be a problem, but it's ok for now. The recent warm weather didn't help, that's for sure.
I also noticed some shops in Granada that would build you a guitar there, but I never checked prices and wouldn't know what they would be like quality wise.

Some of the shops in Granada are notorious for selling factory guitars but giving the impression they were hand made in the shop. The people to speak to are Stephen Hill as mentioned above or John Ray. They will advise who can be trusted/avoided. You are looking at £3k plus for a hand made guitar though. It would be useful to know the OP’s budget.

Creed_Clicks · July 2018

I kind of got the feeling when I was in these shops in Granada that they were "tourist" guitars. There's also a small regular guitar shop in Granada which has some cheap branded nylons as well which might suit the OP. They had different price ranges too, but I can't remember the name of the shop.

earwighoney · July 2018

heavyrocker said:
Some of the shops in Granada are notorious for selling factory guitars but giving the impression they were hand made in the shop. The people to speak to are Stephen Hill as mentioned above or John Ray.

His 2A Models are just under 4,000 Euros and his 1A models are now 6,000 Euros! I remember when Stephen Hill's 2A models were around the £2k mark a few years back and the 1A models being around the 4k mark!

heavyrocker · July 2018

earwighoney said:

heavyrocker said:
Some of the shops in Granada are notorious for selling factory guitars but giving the impression they were hand made in the shop. The people to speak to are Stephen Hill as mentioned above or John Ray.

His 2A Models are just under 4,000 Euros and his 1A models are now 6,000 Euros! I remember when Stephen Hill's 2A models were around the £2k mark a few years back and the 1A models being around the 4k mark!

Yes he does seem to have reached the next level up like Marin Montero etc. He has some good players using his guitars such as Gary Ryan and Declan Zapala, which no doubt helps. I’ve played a couple and while they were nice guitars I wasn’t blown away like I expected to be. He also runs guitar making courses which are always sold out so he is doing something right!

earwighoney · July 2018

heavyrocker said:

Yes he does seem to have reached the next level up like Marin Montero etc. He has some good players using his guitars such as Gary Ryan and Declan Zapala, which no doubt helps. I’ve played a couple and while they were nice guitars I wasn’t blown away like I expected to be. He also runs guitar making courses which are always sold out so he is doing something right!

A chap on another forum I frequent did his course and had an absolutely great time and a few of the chaps to take his course went on to be his apprentices/then guitar makers in their own rights like Graham Emes and I played one of his guitars which I liked a lot.

AMM is one of the all time greatest, thanks for mentioning him.

heavyrocker · July 2018

earwighoney said:

heavyrocker said:

Yes he does seem to have reached the next level up like Marin Montero etc. He has some good players using his guitars such as Gary Ryan and Declan Zapala, which no doubt helps. I’ve played a couple and while they were nice guitars I wasn’t blown away like I expected to be. He also runs guitar making courses which are always sold out so he is doing something right!

A chap on another forum I frequent did his course and had an absolutely great time and a few of the chaps to take his course went on to be his apprentices/then guitar makers in their own rights like Graham Emes and I played one of his guitars which I liked a lot.

AMM is one of the all time greatest, thanks for mentioning him.

Yes I’ve heard of Graham Emes and there’s also Andy Martin who is supposed to be excellent. I tried one of Andy’s flamencos and it was outstanding but unfortunately I didn’t have the funds to buy it at the time. It sold soon after which still pains me!

In fact Stephen’s 2A guitars are built by an apprentice under his supervision so if I was in the market and couldn’t afford a Hill 1A I’d look at either a 2A or one by Graham or Andy. I think Andy is based in La Herradura as well so the OP could do a nice mini tour visiting them both and then the good luthiers in Granada afterwards.

BigLicks67 · July 2018

Bernabe make nice guitars, i think the M15 is the base model price wise.

gibsongretschfan · July 2018

meltedbuzzbox said:

Not sure you will find a bargain (you're probably better off watching ebay as used classical guitars depreciate quicker than a Godin guitar).
This guy makes an awesome classical http://www.burguet.com/eng/amalioburguet.html

or something like a mid level Yamaha could be good. CTX if you want traditional nut size and NTX if you want something closer to a steel strung acoustic

Sounds a good plan, I’ve played a few Yamaha’s that I absolutely loved over the years.

gibsongretschfan · July 2018

DulcetJones said:

A classical or flamenco? I can't help you with deals but in case you don't know the details, flamenco guitars are usually built with much lighter woods(weight wise) and usually have "tap plates", either clear or white stick on pick guards that are there to protect the top when flamenco players use the "golpe" or tap effect for percussion. They often have lower action as well.

That’s actually good to know, I was never fully sure of the differences. Thanks

gibsongretschfan · July 2018

heavyrocker said:

What’s your budget? Picado are a good buy for mid-range. You might be able to visit their workshop and buy direct if you contact them.

Be aware that in Spain it’s quite common for guitars to be made in the factory of a cheaper brand and then a more expensive brand slaps their label on it. You’ll probably get more knowledgable people on the Delcamp classical guitar forum. I’m sure this question will have been asked loads of times on there.

Budget probably looking between 1-1.5k

ill give those a look cheers

Warblington · August 2018

heavyrocker said:

earwighoney said:

heavyrocker said:

Yes he does seem to have reached the next level up like Marin Montero etc. He has some good players using his guitars such as Gary Ryan and Declan Zapala, which no doubt helps. I’ve played a couple and while they were nice guitars I wasn’t blown away like I expected to be. He also runs guitar making courses which are always sold out so he is doing something right!

A chap on another forum I frequent did his course and had an absolutely great time and a few of the chaps to take his course went on to be his apprentices/then guitar makers in their own rights like Graham Emes and I played one of his guitars which I liked a lot.

AMM is one of the all time greatest, thanks for mentioning him.

Yes I’ve heard of Graham Emes and there’s also Andy Martin who is supposed to be excellent. I tried one of Andy’s flamencos and it was outstanding but unfortunately I didn’t have the funds to buy it at the time. It sold soon after which still pains me!

In fact Stephen’s 2A guitars are built by an apprentice under his supervision so if I was in the market and couldn’t afford a Hill 1A I’d look at either a 2A or one by Graham or Andy. I think Andy is based in La Herradura as well so the OP could do a nice mini tour visiting them both and then the good luthiers in Granada afterwards.

I went on a guitar building course with Pablo Requena in 2012. The course was in Velez Malaga and lasted one month.one evening we went to visit Stephen Hill and watch a recital by Manus Noble.Graham Emes was also there.After the recital we had dinner and sat around playing guitars and having a few wines.Graham was playing a guitar he had built himself, it was magnificent.They are all really friendly knowledgeable men and make wonderful instruments. Pablo lives in the UK but still runs courses which he holds in, I think Torremolinos now. The courses may be beyond your budget but I'd also recommend trying a visit or getting advice from these guys.Pushing your budget is always worthwhile to get a lifetime instrument.Spanish factory stuff ,or handcrafted as they like to call it,would open loads of options,Contreras,Ramirez,Cordoba etc but with a budget of up 1.5k, I'd be hanging in there ,saving up and going for a luthier built guitar. If its made by an apprentice it won't be crap,the great makers all studied under someone else.Even at my first attempt I built a wonderful sounding guitar (pic of BR back in my avatar, sorry little gloat) so I'm sure you'll find someone incredibly competent by asking the right people.

earwighoney · August 2018

Warblington said:

I went on a guitar building course with Pablo Requena in 2012. The course was in Velez Malaga and lasted one month.one evening we went to visit Stephen Hill and watch a recital by Manus Noble.Graham Emes was also there.After the recital we had dinner and sat around playing guitars and having a few wines.Graham was playing a guitar he had built himself, it was magnificent.They are all really friendly knowledgeable men and make wonderful instruments. Pablo lives in the UK but still runs courses which he holds in, I think Torremolinos now. The courses may be beyond your budget but I'd also recommend trying a visit or getting advice from these guys.Pushing your budget is always worthwhile to get a lifetime instrument.Spanish factory stuff ,or handcrafted as they like to call it,would open loads of options,Contreras,Ramirez,Cordoba etc but with a budget of up 1.5k, I'd be hanging in there ,saving up and going for a luthier built guitar. If its made by an apprentice it won't be crap,the great makers all studied under someone else.Even at my first attempt I built a wonderful sounding guitar (pic of BR back in my avatar, sorry little gloat) so I'm sure you'll find someone incredibly competent by asking the right people.

Credit to you for having the balls to build a guitar with BRW for your first guitar, I'd be shitting bricks for bending the sides in particular!

In the £1.5k budget, I think guitars by Valeriano Bernal, Camps and Sanchis Lopez are worth checking out.

Warblington · August 2018

earwighoney said:

Warblington said:

I went on a guitar building course with Pablo Requena in 2012. The course was in Velez Malaga and lasted one month.one evening we went to visit Stephen Hill and watch a recital by Manus Noble.Graham Emes was also there.After the recital we had dinner and sat around playing guitars and having a few wines.Graham was playing a guitar he had built himself, it was magnificent.They are all really friendly knowledgeable men and make wonderful instruments. Pablo lives in the UK but still runs courses which he holds in, I think Torremolinos now. The courses may be beyond your budget but I'd also recommend trying a visit or getting advice from these guys.Pushing your budget is always worthwhile to get a lifetime instrument.Spanish factory stuff ,or handcrafted as they like to call it,would open loads of options,Contreras,Ramirez,Cordoba etc but with a budget of up 1.5k, I'd be hanging in there ,saving up and going for a luthier built guitar. If its made by an apprentice it won't be crap,the great makers all studied under someone else.Even at my first attempt I built a wonderful sounding guitar (pic of BR back in my avatar, sorry little gloat) so I'm sure you'll find someone incredibly competent by asking the right people.

Credit to you for having the balls to build a guitar with BRW for your first guitar, I'd be shitting bricks for bending the sides in particular!

In the £1.5k budget, I think guitars by Valeriano Bernal, Camps and Sanchis Lopez are worth checking out.

To be fair there were only 3 students so Pablo could devote plenty of time to us.He heavily supervised the bending which was done with a press and a bending iron.He also helped me with a couple of crucial band saw moments! I thought i'd only ever make one so went for the BRW.

ToneControl · August 2018

Do you ever visit the UK? There are several classical guitar brokers (one-man businesses, typically a sideline of a player) in the UK, that sell used top-notch classicals at very good prices. I am not sure how you would find an equivalent source in Spain

I have a Stephen Hill 1A, it's excellent, and he's a great guy well worth talking to. If you have the time and cash, he runs a 4 week course twice a year, for about €4000 I think, from which you will make a guitar comparable to a 2A. Well worth it if you have the time, I'd say.

ToneControl · August 2018

you should join this forum (as I should have before I went buying guitars):
www.classicalguitardelcamp.com
They have all the info for classicals

For the next level down from one-man luthiers, you might find the second-hand supply and demand is better for you in the UK, since a lot of people buy a serious classical guitar, then give up. Try ebay.
Look at the models on these sites first to get a feel for brands and prices:
https://www.staffordguitar.com/
https://www.classicalguitar.co.uk/
https://www.londonguitarstudio.com
http://www.classical-guitars-plus.co.uk/
https://www.kentguitarclassics.com/
https://yorkshireclassicalguitars.co.uk/shop/classical-guitars
https://www.forsyths.co.uk/guitars/32044-classical-guitars

here's some brokers:
http://www.nugentguitars.com/
https://www.guitars-maestosomusic.com/p-available-pre-owned-guitars
WIth these guys, you can turn up and play many used guitars and find out what design works for you

btw Flamencos are not designed for normal classical playing, so will not sound "as good" to most ears with that style of playing.

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Buying Nylon String Guitar in Spain Help?

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