12 string hankering

Bridgehouse · March 2017

Yes, yes I know - "you play bass now, bugger off with ya!"

Well that may be true. But I still write songs, and play acoustic a lot.

I think I would like a 12 string. Not sure why, but I just seem to like the idea.

What would you recommend in the twice-the-usual-strings stakes?

mart · March 2017

Have you thought of just buying a 12-string bass?

Seriously though, a 12-string guitar is a thing of beauty and wonder. Just do it. Guilds are supposed to be great. I've got a Martin DM, and after the action was fettled it plays and sounds like a dream.

Bridgehouse · March 2017

I've played a Guild 6 string and loved it. Are there any good non-dreadnought sized 12 strings out there?

richardhomer · March 2017

Used 70s Guild would be the 'classic' option - not local to you but Frailers in Runcorn often seen to have this kind of thing in stock. They had a (smallish) jumbo style one a while ago that sounded fantastic - I'm not a Guild expert, so I can't remember the model number - but it was a lovely guitar.

stimpsonslostson · March 2017

A Vintage Brett 12 string is an excellent choice. Small bodied, easy to play & great sounding either as an acoustic or plugged in.
(The Giltrap signature one is excellent too).

Bridgehouse · March 2017

Thanks for the heads up. Good options to sniff out there.

I am also tempted by Yamahas offerings. Now if they did a 12 string version of their transacoustic...!

Winny_Pooh · March 2017

You have money... buy a Lowden

Bridgehouse · March 2017

Winny_Pooh said:

You have money... buy a Lowden

Lol. I had money - The big bucks have gone into the 64p

TheBigDipper · March 2017

stimpsonslostson said:

A Vintage Brett 12 string is an excellent choice. Small bodied, easy to play & great sounding either as an acoustic or plugged in.
(The Giltrap signature one is excellent too).

I played the GG Vintage when I was looking for an acoustic 12. Liked it a lot. Also liked a Guild I tried. Ended up buying a Furch/Stonebridge.

kt66 · March 2017

I have a Sigma DM12-4 that I bought in 1989 new, Korean, still found fabulous and plays like a dream. If you have the cash
Guild are the way to go.

Bridgehouse · March 2017

I shall be keeping my eye on the classifieds!

I do like the look of the Guilds - are there any issues to look out for on the older ones?

Either that or I might go left field and look for an old Ovation

AliGorie · March 2017

depends what ya want it for Brigie, most are for lecture players - strumming etc, I only fingerpick so the choice is VERY limited - it's because of the string spacing @ the bridge - needs to be wide enough to get yer finger ends / nails in-between the string pairs - AISaid very few are suitable for this.
Other than that - as others have said the Vintage Brett + Giltrap offer great value for what they are.

Bridgehouse · March 2017

Thanks @Aligorie - I have no doubt that this will be a strummer - song writing and messing about. I like fingerpicking 6 string - but having spent a lot of years on mandolin, it would be nice to get some of that tone.

richardhomer · March 2017

Bridgehouse said:

Either that or I might go left field and look for an old Ovation

I have a real affection for 70s Ovations.

I recently played a couple of old 12 strings at Frailers - one of which was the 'posh' Custom Legend.

They sounded (I regret to say) absolutely dreadful....

Bridgehouse · March 2017

richardhomer said:

Bridgehouse said:

Either that or I might go left field and look for an old Ovation

I have a real affection for 70s Ovations.

I recently played a couple of old 12 strings at Frailers - one of which was the 'posh' Custom Legend.

They sounded (I regret to say) absolutely dreadful....

That's my worry - and let's face it, acoustic pickup technology has moved on!

richardhomer · March 2017

Bridgehouse said:That's my worry - and let's face it, acoustic pickup technology has moved on!

I'm not talking plugged in - the acoustic tone was awful....

Bridgehouse · March 2017

richardhomer said:

Bridgehouse said:That's my worry - and let's face it, acoustic pickup technology has moved on!

I'm not talking plugged in - the acoustic tone was awful....

Guild it is then...

Nitefly · April 2017

I'm currently looking after a 12-string dread for a mate who's gone off working in the Middle East. It's a Simon & Patrick Cedar 12 (solid cedar top, and (AFAIK) cherry back and sides).

When he left it with me he said "It might want some new strings..."

He wasn't wrong - they were disgusting, black and rusty, so it sounded horrible, as you might imagine.

Now, back when Adam was a lad and I was learning about this stuff, the only way to get a 12-string playable was to put light strings on it, tune it to D instead of E, and put a capo on the 2nd fret.

So that's what I did - cleaned it up, ran a drop of walnut oil into the fingerboard, and put some 10's on. And it still sounded horrible! All crashy and too much jangle...

I ended up taking the capo off and tuning it up to E, (praying that the high G wouldn't snap!), and now it sounds ten times better. It's much clearer and more articulate (although it's certainly no Guild).

The current range is the "Woodland" - I googled and found a new one for £599, but I bet you could get a 2nd hand one for a good deal less.

ICBM · April 2017

Nitefly said:

Now, back when Adam was a lad and I was learning about this stuff, the only way to get a 12-string playable was to put light strings on it, tune it to D instead of E, and put a capo on the 2nd fret.

So that's what I did - cleaned it up, ran a drop of walnut oil into the fingerboard, and put some 10's on. And it still sounded horrible! All crashy and too much jangle...

I ended up taking the capo off and tuning it up to E, (praying that the high G wouldn't snap!), and now it sounds ten times better. It's much clearer and more articulate (although it's certainly no Guild).

Yes - because in the old days 'light' meant 11s, which on a 12-string especially are a *lot* heavier than 10s despite only being "one more"

. Tension is proportional to the square of the string gauge for a given frequency, so it makes a lot of difference - and twice as much on a 12-string.

So generally you want to tune a 12-string to D with 11s, and E with 10s. D with 11s sounds immense, but too loose and trashy with 10s exactly as you found. E with 11s will be extremely hard to play - roughly equivalent tension to 15s on a 6-string guitar - and may damage the top or the neck.

AliGorie · April 2017

I put a utube link here somewhere of me playing a 12’er - I have always tuned a 12’er a tone below using 13 - 56 you get a full sound and some compensation for the reduced tension - easier on the l/h hand
That said I play solo and don’t have to be concerned about matching pitch with others, if you play by yourself I’d recommend it.

Javabean · April 2017

I have a nice Faith Saturn HiGloss 12 String up here on this board , if you still have a hankering.

Epsilon · April 2017

All comes down to price! In my experience, Guilds remain King of the 12 strings. If you can find an F-412 or F-512 you can't go wrong...though certainly not cheap! I have a 70s F-412 which has a truly remarkable tone.

On the more affordable side Breedlove do some excellent 12 strings for a very reasonable price. They have a more contemporary tone and feel when compared to Guild - slightly more ergonomical in terms of design (e.g string spacing). They usually also have very good in-built pickups.

I have both a Guild and Breedlove for 12 strings. One used for standard and the other for open tunings. Taylors are obviously very nice but at the cheaper end of the range I don't think you're getting that much more than a mid-level Breedlove (e.g Atlas studio) to justify the extra cost.

The main things to look out for on a 12 string is the action/neck angle. If there is plenty of saddle left to lower then high action isn't a problem. However if you've got high action combined with low saddle then you're looking at neck reset territory, which is not cheap.

With vintage 12 strings I often think it's better to find one that has already had a neck reset, as after 40 years or so most 12 strings, if used in standard tuning, will end up needing one.

guitarplucker · May 2017

I suggest with a 12 string you buy the best you can afford Guild with their history in this type of guitar and their double truss rod feature remain the king i feel even with their Chinese range ,,My current 12 string priced at the lower end market although strung with 011-048s is now suffering from a lifting bridge and yes it was tuned open D Because of the bridge design its impractical to repair without taking the top off So save pennies and go upmarket is best i feel

guitarfishbay · May 2017

I have a Simon & Patrick 12 string. I think it sounds great but I haven't really had much use for it for ages.

It has been out on loan for a long time, more than a year. I bought it new so resale would be terrible, and I might want another 12 string one day so I figured I'd be better off loaning it out than selling it.

guitarplucker · May 2017

I have to say i loved the 12 string Parlour thats now suffering a lifting bridge as i go for slotted headstocks and parlour acoustics which it has and is But will spend more money on the next one thats for sure

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12 string hankering

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