My acoustic-choosing journey

AliGorie · October 2016

Lewy said:

TimmyO said:

Cheers.

There's a Youtube channel 'Stageshop' that has a load of demos of these - some lovely sounding stuff

If you haven't already discovered "The Acoustic Letter" on Youtube then it's an excellent source of demos for Martins, Gibsons and a few other US makers too. Even if it just helps tune your ear into different body styles/sounds.

Aaaaagh - Noooooooo not The Letter, it's a satirical comedy channel on guitars - like this -

Image: http://img.youtube.com/vi/3r8qHFJPIgY/0.jpg

Stageshop at least just plays the guitars so u can hear 'em - without the cringe sales pitch.

Lewy · October 2016

AliGorie said:

Lewy said:

TimmyO said:

Cheers.

There's a Youtube channel 'Stageshop' that has a load of demos of these - some lovely sounding stuff

If you haven't already discovered "The Acoustic Letter" on Youtube then it's an excellent source of demos for Martins, Gibsons and a few other US makers too. Even if it just helps tune your ear into different body styles/sounds.

Aaaaagh - Noooooooo not The Letter, it's a satirical comedy channel on guitars - like this -

Stageshop at least just plays the guitars so u can hear 'em - without the cringe sales pitch.

The vast majority of their videos are just Tony Polecastro stating the spec of a guitar and then playing it in a useful variety of ways. Although he's moved on from there now so not sure who does the demos currently.

erky32 · October 2016

Blimey, you've had a massive response here! Just thought i'd throw in my twopence worth. Mostly played electrics over last half century, quite a few acoustics, which i set up to behave a bit like elecs, at present i have a Larrivee L05 (i think) ...got it 2nd hand for £700 a few yrs ago, Its brilliant, comfy, bright tone, strung with 10s Elixir, action like a lead guitar, wide shallow neck.... Its a dream to play and good sound. Before that i had a Taylor 114, entry level, but great guitar, nice action/neck but with 10s it had no projection. I would have another Taylor no probs, probably the 414CE ....thats a good spec....they all seem to have nice necks to me, I'm not familiar with many others, except Yamahas in the past, which i dont like too much,....hope my thoughts help a little!!

TimmyO · October 2016

erky32 said:

Blimey, you've had a massive response here!

Yes indeed! I'm very grateful and it has fuelled plenty of nosing around the net - exactly what I was hoping for - thanks guys.

There are lots of fantastic demos around the net - I do keep thinking my thoughts are solidifying only to have them challenged again :-)

Actually something that has been rolling around my head that you guys might be able to help me straighten out:

Even I (!) can feel and hear the difference when you have in your hands 'a good strummer' and 'a good fingerpicker' - but then there seems to be a level of balanced-picker beyond that, the non-Americana inspired stuff (e.g. the Brooks and some of the Furchs as examples) - these things sound especially sweet in the hands of a picker, be they folky or modern, but these seems to be the ones that *really* don't like to be strummed.

Am I imagining this or is it a thing?

Awkwardly I'm finding it hard to shake the conclusion that I do want something that does a good job of both.
I don't want it to sound like a strong stretched between 2 nails when it is fingered, and I don't want it to not respond if the low strings get a wallop with a plectrum.

I think I'm reconciled to a compromise. The quest seems to now be about the least worst compromise :-)

Price range is hard to predict - it will depend how long it takes me to find a job, and whether it's a good job haha. I'd love to think I could afford a good used example of the kinds of things I was musing about some posts ago - which seems to be comfortably above a grand, but not in to the 2k+ that they are new.

I'm hoping to get the car fixed this week so that I can sneak out in the day and try things (although not sure what the good places close to Swindon to try lots in one place might be. Any thoughts welcomed.

Keep the opinions, experiences and thoughts coming - feel free to post any demos you particularly like too.

Cheers
T

TimmyO · October 2016

I like the way this strums, and it sounds to do a passable picking :

AliGorie · October 2016

Tim, that's typically whats classed as an SJ (Small Jumbo) 16" lower bout but it has OM/000 depth = shallow.Contrary to what the 'sales guy' says "it'll have loads of bottom end" + "really solid responsiveness because we have a lot of surface area we're dealing with" - what - pish it's the body depth that causes 'bottom end' - think dreadnought 4 5/8"
"really solid responsiveness" - that doesn't make sense - well, ok maybe too Americans.
I think what hes trying to say - it's an SJ so it's a bit louder - but that kinda uncool observation wouldn't go with the trending, then (2014) trending Yosemite Sam beard..
Martin's 'Ninja model'- oh enough of this stupidity -
Tim, you need a bigish Eastman - they're in u'r price range - even better S/H
here's what Yos Sam's doin now -
https://tonypolecastro.com/

TimmyO · October 2016

Lewy said:

AliGorie said:

Lewy said:

TimmyO said:

Cheers.

There's a Youtube channel 'Stageshop' that has a load of demos of these - some lovely sounding stuff

If you haven't already discovered "The Acoustic Letter" on Youtube then it's an excellent source of demos for Martins, Gibsons and a few other US makers too. Even if it just helps tune your ear into different body styles/sounds.

Aaaaagh - Noooooooo not The Letter, it's a satirical comedy channel on guitars - like this -

Stageshop at least just plays the guitars so u can hear 'em - without the cringe sales pitch.

The vast majority of their videos are just Tony Polecastro stating the spec of a guitar and then playing it in a useful variety of ways. Although he's moved on from there now so not sure who does the demos currently.

I like the channel - as you say @Lewy most of what I've seen has been straightforward demos and comparisons that are well recorded and (why don't others do this?) the same pieces played consistently - it works well.

A couple of days of demo-watching are taking their toll - I need to go play some stuff again.

olafgarten · October 2016

If you want a good compromise find a good Mahogany/Spruce OM, mine is a cheap one, but it sounds great. It doesn't stand up well to heavy strumming but as long as you keep it reasonable it sings. Picking is on another level though, it always sounds good, even with my terrible technique.

xSkarloey · October 2016

Takamines can sometimes be hard to track down, but if you get a chance why not try one of their 'Nex' shaped guitars. I've always found the 'G' series to be okay, but the Japanes guitars can be on a completely different level. Good all rounders.

BigLicks67 · October 2016

TimmyO said:

I like the way this strums, and it sounds to do a passable picking :

For strumming try one of these :

crunchman · October 2016

TimmyO said:

Even I (!) can feel and hear the difference when you have in your hands 'a good strummer' and 'a good fingerpicker' - but then there seems to be a level of balanced-picker beyond that, the non-Americana inspired stuff (e.g. the Brooks and some of the Furchs as examples) - these things sound especially sweet in the hands of a picker, be they folky or modern, but these seems to be the ones that *really* don't like to be strummed.

Brook and Furch are very different. Furch are much more US inspired. A lot of their guitars are their takes on the classic Martin recipe but at a more friendly price.

For me, Brook seem to do smaller bodied stuff better really well. They seem to be able to get a big tone out of a small body. Conversely the bigger bodied stuff doesn't sound as big in comparison. I had a Teign (dreadnought) for a while. It didn't have anything like the low end punch of a Martin dread. I was a lovely sounding guitar but I couldn't get on with the neck. For what you want it might work quite well if you can get on with the shallow neck and flat fingerboard.

As others have said, the OOO / OM size is probably the best compromise, although the Martin dreadnoughts with the forward shifted bracing are a lot more responsive to finger picking and being played gently in general than the D28 style bracing.

Going back to Brook, the Tavy (small jumbo) is a good all rounder as well.

AliGorie · October 2016

crunchman said:

TimmyO said:

Even I (!) can feel and hear the difference when you have in your hands 'a good strummer' and 'a good fingerpicker' - but then there seems to be a level of balanced-picker beyond that, the non-Americana inspired stuff (e.g. the Brooks and some of the Furchs as examples) - these things sound especially sweet in the hands of a picker, be they folky or modern, but these seems to be the ones that *really* don't like to be strummed.

For me, Brook seem to do smaller bodied stuff better really well. They seem to be able to get a big tone out of a small body. Conversely the bigger bodied stuff doesn't sound as big in comparison.

Have to agree crunchy, played a lot down at the Brook workshop - impressed with the smaller 000 and under but not the larger.
on the point of strummers / fingerpickers guitars, I've never found they were mutually exclusive if u play 'em with the appropriate technique.

TimmyO · October 2016

What is this "technique" of which you speak? Do they sell it in Andertons?

Lewy · October 2016

Definitely not mutually exclusive - Merle Travis stylised the way most people fingerpick and he did it on a D28, for example.

AliGorie · October 2016

TimmyO said:

What is this "technique" of which you speak? Do they sell it in Andertons?

nah Tim, ya acquire it, just part of the 'skill set'.
U play the instrument not 'the instrument plays u'

two guys choosing to play (with appropriate technique) what are deemed out and out ‘finger style’ guitars - Darrel Scott plays his Martin Simpson Signature Sobell (Alpine Spruce / African Blackwood).
Ross Martin chooses a Cedar topped Lowden (Hog b&sides for over a decade) to strum rhythm guitar in the band Daimh - being heard along side fiddle and pipes - they can be heard playing purely acoustically on some of their videos. I mean Cedar - what about the lack of HEADROOM - argh this is insane, u cant strum a Cedar Lowden - it's against the laws of (internet) physics - btw the Cittern is also Cedar - they get going half way in.

TimmyO · October 2016

Thank you for introducing me to Darrell Scott - that was marvellous !

TimmyO · October 2016

Oh my - if could write songs these are the songs I would write

ToneControl · October 2016

AliGorie said:

TimmyO said:

What is this "technique" of which you speak? Do they sell it in Andertons?

nah Tim, ya acquire it, just part of the 'skill set'.
U play the instrument not 'the instrument plays u'

two guys choosing to play (with appropriate technique) what are deemed out and out ‘finger style’ guitars - Darrel Scott plays his Martin Simpson Signature Sobell (Alpine Spruce / African Blackwood).
Ross Martin chooses a Cedar topped Lowden (Hog b&sides for over a decade) to strum rhythm guitar in the band Daimh - being heard along side fiddle and pipes - they can be heard playing purely acoustically on some of their videos. I mean Cedar - what about the lack of HEADROOM - argh this is insane, u cant strum a Cedar Lowden - it's against the laws of (internet) physics - btw the Cittern is also Cedar - they get going half way in.

I liked the Darrell Scott a lot

Lewy · October 2016

TimmyO said:

Thank you for introducing me to Darrell Scott - that was marvellous !

His regular collaborator and all round amazing musician Tim O'Brien shows that 00s are good for more than fingerstyle too....

AliGorie · October 2016

Darrell's guitar
http://www.sobellguitars.com/darrell-scott-and-martin-simpson-model-guitar-06-september-2010/

just to say - I have a (well known ) cedar topped 'finger pickers six string guitar I regularly give big lick to also a cedar topped 12 string which come in for a fair bit of 'abuse' when the need takes me - never a problem - it's HOW ya do it.

oh dont forget another 'strummed' who plays a fingerpickers guitar - a Cedar / Brazilian Lowden 'O' -
same model he gave to El Clapo !

AliGorie · October 2016

Lewy, nice playing by Tim on that little 00 - I like both their contribution to Trans Sessions -

Lewy · October 2016

AliGorie said:

Wow. When he sings that it stays f***ing sung!

Lewy · October 2016

AliGorie said:

Lewy, nice playing by Tim on that little 00 - I like both their contribution to Trans Sessions -

Yep. Now if only between them they could persuade Jerry Douglas to stop musically rubbing himself all over everything ....

AliGorie · October 2016

Tim, it’s obvious the dubious advice spew'd out over the internet is for beginner to student level buyers who have yet to develop ‘appropriate technique’ to ‘control’ the unwanted excess of complex sounding guitars . Simply palm / pick muting r/h and finger muting l/h to kill offending strings. Evident throughout these examples - the trade off is a VERY full sounding accompaniment (and inspirational guitar to play).
Once u have a well developed and varied array of 'licks & 'chops' to express u'r music with u can explore th3qualaties of different types of instruments and make u'r own mind up as to whay can be done or used - rule braking plays it's part also.
Beware also of the 'image' some artists have to maintain, it's an important part of what their selling - e.g. imagine Clapo coming on stage with a big modern styled fan fret - like Andy McKee 'chooses' to use - nah just wouldn't work - for Clapo it's gotta be a classy, very rare, very expensive vintage retro job which can then be 'reproduced' after a fashion, with his name on it so devotees can have a bit of consumer satisfaction sitting in their lounge.
-
Don't mention the Milk Carton Kids product / image / guitars.

- and heres another - again, a big Lowden cedar / r/wood ‘O’ - considered by some as ’THE’ Lowden in terms of huge complex sound and favoured by many finger stylists.

MH prefer this O25c for his ‘deep’ (low) tunings e.g. BbEbBbBbEbGb

enjoy

Lewy, u’r right - something to do with Jerry + Ali’s production company refer’d to as part of the ‘Celtic Mafia’
(Pelicula Films Ltd - Transatlantic Sessions musical co-directors Aly Bain and Jerry Douglas).

meltedbuzzbox · October 2016

octatonic said:

rossyamaha said:

Obviously I'm gonna chime in and do my thing.

If you're looking around that kinda price range check the the Yammy L series and A series. There are dreadnought and concert versions of each. Necks are really comfortable too.

+1.
IMHO Yamaha make some of the best budget acoustics.

They used to. They've gone way off the boil in the last 5+ years.

I'd say faith are a better option personally

TimmyO · October 2016

Anyone know what guitar this is?

Also what kind of body size/type is that - is it as big as the O size Lowdens/Avalons do you think ?

thomasross20 · October 2016

Martin and Larrivee for me.
Larrivee are excellent and by far the best bang for buck.

KKJale · October 2016

TimmyO said:

Anyone know what guitar this is?

That be a Kopp Trail Boss.

http://koppguitars.com/guitars/kopp-trail-boss/

TimmyO · October 2016

KKJale said:

TimmyO said:

Anyone know what guitar this is?

That be a Kopp Trail Boss.

http://koppguitars.com/guitars/kopp-trail-boss/

Big jumbo then? Thanks for the link :-)

ToneControl · October 2016

thomasross20 said:

Martin and Larrivee for me.
Larrivee are excellent and by far the best bang for buck.

I agree that Larrivee are the best value mass-produced pro guitars, but you can get hand-made used Avalons for similar prices to used Larrivees in the UK

I speak as a Larrivee fan who owned 4 or 5 at once, I still have kept my SD60, but all my Avalons are better, some 2 notches or more up from the SD60

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