Is there a better way...

Rocker · May 2016

... of securing a strap than using a shoelace to tie the strap at the headstock? Apart from fitting a strap button at the neck heel. Thanks

richardhomer · May 2016

No.

thomasross20 · May 2016

I'm considering fitting a pin to the neck heel. Is that OK or not....?

thomasross20 · May 2016

The whole "string around headstock" thing is well weird to me. Some would say I'm the weird one.

ICBM · May 2016

The button on the heel is perfectly OK if you do it right. If the heel isn't a rounded (eg Gibson) shape where it can go on the centreline, you need to put it on the treble side about halfway up, you must drill a hole the proper size, and use a felt washer.

On the back of the heel is generally a bad idea, the guitar will hang awkwardly on the strap and may not fit into the case as easily.

If you don't want to do that, the shoelace is still the best way - but you can make it easier. This sounds odd, but... *first*, tie the lace into a loop, as large as you can make, and pull the knot as tight as possible. Then fit the loop to the strap by putting it through the hole and passing the rest of it through itself. (If you can arrange it so the knot is near the strap the next bit works best.)

Then fit the whole thing to the guitar by pushing the loop under the strings, then pulling the whole strap through the loop befire attaching it to the button at the other end. This makes it much easier to get on and off than tying and untying a knot.

Easier done than described

.

Winny_Pooh · May 2016

You can fit a strap button to the upper "horn" location as on an electric. You will need a small wooden block glued inside to take the screw.

Sassafras · May 2016

You could always drill one of these into the upper bout and you wouldn't need the wooden block.

ICBM · May 2016

Winny_Pooh said:

You can fit a strap button to the upper "horn" location as on an electric. You will need a small wooden block glued inside to take the screw.

Really, really don't even think about doing this unless it's a cheap plywood guitar you don't much care about.

On a solid wood guitar there's a good chance of splitting the side even with a block on the inside. There is a reason you never see a button there on any good acoustic guitar.

Repairing the damage caused by this is not a trivial job either...

thomasross20 · May 2016

I'm tempted to NOT get a strap button fitted and just play acoustic sitting down!

Lewy · May 2016

ICBM;1072838" said:
The button on the heel is perfectly OK if you do it right. If the heel isn't a rounded (eg Gibson) shape where it can go on the centreline, you need to put it on the treble side about halfway up, you must drill a hole the proper size, and use a felt washer.

On the back of the heel is generally a bad idea, the guitar will hang awkwardly on the strap and may not fit into the case as easily.

If you don't want to do that, the shoelace is still the best way - but you can make it easier. This sounds odd, but... *first*, tie the lace into a loop, as large as you can make, and pull the knot as tight as possible. Then fit the loop to the strap by putting it through the hole and passing the rest of it through itself. (If you can arrange it so the knot is near the strap the next bit works best.)

Then fit the whole thing to the guitar by pushing the loop under the strings, then pulling the whole strap through the loop befire attaching it to the button at the other end. This makes it much easier to get on and off than tying and untying a knot.

Easier done than described .

Or just use the lanyards with a quick release arrangement like Planet Waves make. I use them on all my acoustics and they work a treat.

Wolfetone · May 2016

I have never understood the wisdom of attaching the strap on the headstock. The maximum leverage on the neck joint is applied by the weight of the guitar. I will always fit a strap pin either to the heel or in the case of my EKO, into the neck reinforcement.

ICBM · May 2016

Wolfetone said:

I have never understood the wisdom of attaching the strap on the headstock. The maximum leverage on the neck joint is applied by the weight of the guitar.

Not even close - the string tension is around thirty times greater, at about 150lb for a set of 12s vs 5lb for the weight of the guitar. It makes no practical difference.

mart · May 2016

Another option if you have a strap button by the heel is to tie a string loosely from there to the headstock, running it through the strap. That way you can slide the strap along so that it's either nearer the head or nearer the heel, to get the best balance.

Rocker · May 2016

Your 'loop' method seems a sensible method @ICBM. The guitar in question is not very valuable but I will hold off fitting a strap button on the underside of the neck heel (similar to how this is done on my Taylor).

BigLicks67 · May 2016

I use a couple of these :

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/planet-waves-acoustic-quick-release-system/100758?gclid=CJKg2qvj3MwCFUqdGwodCvIIew

It's basically the same as the loop idea suggested by ICBM, but it's quick release and don't have to leave it on your guitar.

I've been using them for over 10 years with no problems.

Rocker · May 2016

I used the loop system as suggested by @ICBM and it works very well. Got rid of the untidy lacing and looks pretty good. Thanks for the suggestions guys, much appreciated.

octatonic · May 2016

Wolfetone said:

I have never understood the wisdom of attaching the strap on the headstock. The maximum leverage on the neck joint is applied by the weight of the guitar. I will always fit a strap pin either to the heel or in the case of my EKO, into the neck reinforcement.

Folk players did it so they didn't have to drill into their instruments.

Rocker · May 2016

From an engineering point of view, I don't think drilling a hole in wood that has been bent into a curved shape is such a good idea. I believe that there is a risk of splitting the guitar body as the integrity of the piece has been compromised. I have not tried it myself and I could be wrong.....

ICBM · May 2016

Rocker said:

From an engineering point of view, I don't think drilling a hole in wood that has been bent into a curved shape is such a good idea. I believe that there is a risk of splitting the guitar body as the integrity of the piece has been compromised. I have not tried it myself and I could be wrong.....

You're not wrong. That's why you don't want to drill into the body, even with a block on the inside - and because if the strap gets a tug, the block will twist slightly and the side of the guitar can split at the edge of the block instead.

It's also OK on plywood guitars with thick multi-ply sides, like most semi-acoustic electrics have - but it's still not a good idea on a standard acoustic with about 3mm 3-ply sides - they can crack too.

But drilling into the neck heel is not like that - although there are other pitfalls. If you don't drill the hole properly you can still split the wood, especially if you're drilling more or less directly into the endgrain, and you also need to be very careful to check that the heel isn't bolted on - if you hit the bolt (which can be very close to the surface on some) you're in a real mess… because you'll be left with an unusable hole that needs to be filled as invisibly as possible.

You can probably guess how I know all of this

. Badly-fitted strap buttons are still one of the most common causes of DIY accidents, and it really puzzles me why more acoustic makers *still* don't fit a second button as standard.

bluechargeboy · May 2016

I put a strap button on the heel of my Larrivee, no worries. I put some tape on the drill so I didn't go in too far and I checked on that internet and using my eyeballs that there were no metal components in the way inside. I probably made a small guide hole first.

Just stop and think before you make the hole! You only get one chance.

Winny_Pooh · May 2016

Rocker said:

From an engineering point of view, I don't think drilling a hole in wood that has been bent into a curved shape is such a good idea. I believe that there is a risk of splitting the guitar body as the integrity of the piece has been compromised. I have not tried it myself and I could be wrong.....

The point is that the wooden block internally is GLUED, and on the straight rather than curved part of the side.

If you believe it's unsafe then let me link to my good friend Dan Erlewine:

http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Hardware_Installation/Wheres_the_best_spot_for_your_strap_button.html

ICBM · May 2016

I very, very rarely disagree with Dan Erlewine, but that's one where I do.

I admit that he's fitting it very close to the neck block rather than in the 'Les Paul position', so the block will help support the extra block too - and yes, it is on the straighter part of the side.

If you've ever had to repair a guitar with a split side because someone did it by gluing a little block much further away from the neck block - as you suggested, the 'horn position' - you will know exactly why I would strongly recommend against doing it.

Sassafras · May 2016

I also don't like the way he risks drilling a hole down the middle of his thumb!!!

rossyamaha · May 2016

Here ya go.

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/parts-c4/strap-buttons-straplocks-c115/martin-martin-18a0032-acoustic-guitar-headstock-brown-leather-strap-tie-p10092/s10391?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=martin-18a0032-acoustic-guitar-headstock-brown-leather-strap-tie-18ashkbr&utm_campaign=product+listing+ads&gclid=CPHw2pu04cwCFcZAGwodAawL8A

thomasross20 · May 2016

Who actually plays sitting down with a mic in front of the guitar?

ICBM · May 2016

Eric Clapton

And quite a lot of folk/singer-songwriter types.

It's still the best way to get a proper acoustic sound, where stage volume and movement aren't a problem.

thomasross20 · May 2016

I reckon I'd probably do that. Sit on a chair and mic it up.

Lewy · May 2016

thomasross20;1080261" said:
Who actually plays sitting down with a mic in front of the guitar?

I do. Often stand and play in front of a single large condenser mic for vocals and guitar too when the environment will allow (i.e. If I'll be able to hear myself without foldback).

thomasross20 · May 2016

I have to admit, I've yet to play acoustic live.

Wouldn't know whether to drill a strap button into the heel and fit an M80... or just do the mic thing and sit on a seat

Lewy · May 2016

thomasross20;1082093" said:
I have to admit, I've yet to play acoustic live. Wouldn't know whether to drill a strap button into the heel and fit an M80... or just do the mic thing and sit on a seat

It's basically all about the environment you're going to be playing in, how loud, what PA, is it your show or are you doing a "spot", how long you're going to get to soundcheck etc.

You can get good results plugging in with something like an M80 or K&K pure mini, but it'll never sound really acoustic. Having said that it will likely also never become an unworkable howling feedback mess which mics can if you try and use them in the wrong setting.

xSkarloey · May 2016

thomasross20;1080261" said:
Who actually plays sitting down with a mic in front of the guitar?

@thomasross20 Most of the British folk-blues players play/played sitting down.

Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Roy Harper, Ralph McTell, Davey Graham etc.

Martin Carthy's an exception out of that lot.

But yes it's pretty common although admittedly not done too much down the at the typical open mic.

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