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andrew · November 2015

Hi all,

Just a quick feeler post as I'm looking to downsize from my 1x12 Rocket clone. I play in Church and as we mic the amp, I can't get it loud enough to really get the juice I'm after (especially using a Strat!) without driving the sound guys insane...

So, I guess I'm looking around the 5-15w ballpark, with a Fender/Tweed type sound. I'm afraid I don't know loads about amps, so I'm not 100% on what I like and don't like, but I'll try to explain! I like a warm clean, that has a creamy 'crunch' or pushed clean. I don't need anything mega-gainy. I like Blues Juniors (these would be my ideal!), but not a huge fan of the Marshall's I've heard...

So, the Trainwreck, here's what I know: I bought it as a step up from my HT-1R to gig with. It's loaded with a pair of 6V6's and what appear to be a pair of smaller tubes (12AX7's?) and it has a Celestion G12-H90 in it. It seems to be 'point-to-point' from what I can tell - can't see a circuit board in there.

I can answer any questions and take photo's if needed. It'd need to be a collection-type affair as A. The amp is bloody heavy, and B. I wouldn't move it on until it had been played through and liked by the other party. Based just outside of Plymouth (South West Devon).

Thanks all, and let me know if I've missed anything!

Andrew.

kjdowd · November 2015

Pm'd

andrew · November 2015

Thanks @kjdowd - nothing come through yet mind...

*edit* Replied now!

SunDevil · November 2015

@Andrew - do you have any pics?

If it's running a pair of 6v6s, then it's unlikely to be putting out much more than 20w as it stands (not trying to teach you to suck eggs, but just so as you're aware that it's not going to be putting out 30 'loud' watts like a Rocket would with a quad of EL84s and a 15 wattter wont be significantly different)

Also, if there are only 2 preamp tubes, does it have a tone stack or any other tone shaping controls like a high cut or presence?

Does it overdrive?

Cheers

Baz

andrew · November 2015

Hi @SunDevil,

Just snapped a few on the iPad for kjdowd which I can forward to you if you wanted to PM me an email address? My understanding is that it's putting out 18, basically, I can't get it above a quarter on the volume with the master (gain) at 12'o'clock. No worries about sucking eggs, that's pretty much where I'm at with amps!

It has a contour control on the front which seems to change the gain characteristic from smooth to gritty. I leave it around 12.

It certainly overdrives, much easier with a Les Paul (but I play a Strat or a Tele out at Church), so I use an boost pedal to push it. I never use a really gain-y sound so I've never properly pushed it - only ever go to a mild crunch really!

SunDevil · November 2015

Thanks for the info - doesn't sound like it's really a Rocket clone to be honest - possibly a little Songwriter-inspired though and there's no reason that not being a Rocket should mean it doesn't sound great!

The Rocket is pretty much a AC30 - 3 preamp valves, TMB tone stack and a quad of EL84s with no maste volume (Ken Fischer's amp designs don't have a master volume as he thought it lost the amps's sensitiity to your playing)

It sounds like you've got something more akin to a tweed amp (depending on exactly what those 2 preamp values are doing and the nature of that contour control?) but I'm sure there are those better informed than I am here who can help further

So I guess I'm saying that if your looking for a 15w tweed type amp, you might already have one?

Some things you could try to tame the volume a bit

Swap the 12ax7/ecc83s for a 5571 in the first slot and a 12at7 / ecc81 in the second to get lower gain and less distortion

Try a lower sensitivity speaker (again, not sure of the sensitivity of your current speaker, but 3db less sensitivity will make give you a noticeable volume drop - something like a greenback?)

andrew · November 2015

Ah, very interesting, thanks @SunDevil!

Might be on the hunt for some new valves then. I presume this is work that should really be carried out by a tech as the new tubes will need re-biasing? I'm sure I read that somewhere...

Thanks for the speaker advice too, sounds like I might be on to a winner!

I'm going to leave it on for trades, as I really would fancy a Bliues Junior or similar (I don't think I really want to pour money into modding mine at the moment) but I'll certainly keep those changes in mind - all your expertise appreciated!

SunDevil · November 2015

Hi @Andrew

Firstly, I was clearly typing too fast last night - I meant 5751 not 5771!

The small valves don't need to be rebiased - they are just plug and play and cost about £10, so might be worth an experiment - typically, the valves will be seated away from any of the capacitors that might give you a shock, so that should be pretty straightforward to do yourself

http://www.karltone.co.uk/jj-5751-241-p.asp?variantid=242

The 6v6s (and the 'larger' power section valves) can either be self-biasing or need adjustment, depending on the amp - if they need adjustment (bizarrely denoted as fixed bias) then it's probably a tech job unless you are comfortable around high voltages, but this won't make a huge difference volume wise if you are installing the same valve type

All the best

Baz

andrew · November 2015

Ah, I wondered why Google wasn't turning anything up for '5571 Tubes'!

I'll have a hunt - for a tenner or so it's certainly worth a pop. Was just a little worried as I know tubes can be on the pricier side and I'd heard that you might need a tech to re-bias the amp so was seeing my wallet quickly emptying! I'll have a little Google/eBay browse when I get home tonight and see what i can drag up.

Again, many thanks for your help!

Mkjackary · November 2015

I use an old linear 1x12 cab, the speaker in that is probably 9db less efficient than a v30! Brilliant as I can crank my OR15 good and proper with it, especially rehursal/gig volumes.

andrew · November 2015

andrew · November 2015

Downsizing bump.

Norwegian_Blue · November 2015

This used to be mine I believe, quite a few years ago now! Very cool amp, sounds killer!

andrew · November 2015

Ah, yes indeed @Norwegian_Blue! Unfortunately a bit too much for my current needs. If it doesn't go I'll do the tube switch that @SunDevil suggested and see if that does the trick.

crunchman · November 2015

If you like the amp you might be better off getting some kind of power scaling fitted.

andrew · November 2015

I do like the amp, very much, and I did think about getting some kind of attenuator to do that @crunchman, but don't really want to spend on it - the GAS fund won't stretch to that! Prefer to trade down to something that's more the kind of wattage I 'need'...

crunchman · November 2015

I don't know about techs around your way but I know Jesse Hoff used to fit power scaling for £100. It might cost a bit less further away from London. Power scaling is different than an attenuator as it drops the voltage to the power valves. It tends to sound a lot better as well. I play in church as well. I got Jesse to put power scaling in my Lazy J and it really helps, and unlike an attenuator there is very little change in sound as you drop the volume.

There is another option as well. You might be able to get quite a bit of volume reduction with a different speaker. If you are thinking of going for something Tweedy then something like a Jensen P12Q (95dB) or C12Q (94.6dB) would be in the right ballpark and should significantly reduce your volume. They will sound different from your Celestion though - and might be a bit farty in the low end. The P12Q is Alnico so it's a but more pricy (£89 at HotRox) but the C12Q is only £34.50. To me Alnico does sound good though.

If you did go for a C12Q then you should be able to get a good chunk of that money back from selling your existing speaker. If you buy the C12Q and don't like it you wouldn't lose much by the time you sell it on. If you are patient they will pop up on EBay from time to time - or possibly even better would be the Weber equivalent (12A125 and 12F125)

andrew · November 2015

Sounds like the C12Q might be a bit of a bargain! I'll keep an eye out on the' bay, thanks for your advice @crunchman! ;

andrew · November 2015

Looking for a Blues Junior, or something similar - any offers?

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