P90 Neck Pickup on a 52' Tele?

ryanverbena · September 2023

I'm thinking about doing this with my 52' Custom Shop that has a set of 50's Nocasters. I've run the full range of height adjustments and still curious as to how I could improve the neck pickup, which sounds bit thin relative to the bridge (and to my other guitars neck positions).

I've always loved P90's, but currently don't own a guitar equipped with them.

Has anyone else done this with a Tele before? Would be interested to hear people's thoughts/experiences.

citesquestion · September 2023

I had Teles with P90s in the neck and, well, it sounded like a P90 (which I like) and imo quite harmonious with the tele bridge. I'm not sure your Nocaster will be routed for one though – maybe try one of those P90-voiced single coils (e.g., https://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/telecaster-p90-neck-pickup.html). Also, are you sure you just dislike the Nocaster wiring?

PAL · September 2023

Have you tried the Nashville mod ! You just rewire so the neck pickup doesn't go through the tone pot.

Winny_Pooh · September 2023

It's a quite a bit fatter. Maybe too fat compared to the bridge pickup unless you put an SD quarter pounder there.

You'd need to route the cavity so perhaps first try a sc sized humbucker in there first to get a taste. These sound ridiculously good for the price:

https://northwestguitars.co.uk/products/artec-hot-rails-stacked-humbucker-neck-pickup-for-telecaster?variant=45461105213714

ICBM · September 2023

Winny_Pooh said:

It's a quite a bit fatter. Maybe too fat compared to the bridge pickup unless you put an SD quarter pounder there.

You'd need to route the cavity so perhaps first try a sc sized humbucker in there first to get a taste.

I would do it the other way round - a Duncan Quarter Pound neck pickup will fit without routing and give you the fatter tone. It doesn’t sound like a P90, but then again a P90 in a Tele doesn’t sound like a P90! If your benchmark is a P90 in a mahogany Gibson…

rossi · September 2023

Four way selector switch .A standard mod. .Makes the sound much fuller .You will have to earth the neck pickup cover . .

ICBM · September 2023

rossi said:

Four way selector switch .A standard mod. .Makes the sound much fuller .You will have to earth the neck pickup cover .

But messes up the sound of the bridge pickup since the neck is not fully disconnected from the circuit, and still doesn’t sound that great in series.

You may not realise how much it’s affecting the sound unless you remove it and go back to traditional wiring.

Blueingreen · September 2023

I have a Tom Anderson Tele with a P90 in the neck position. So far I've only used it at home so never played it at real volume, but with that caveat I like the sound a lot, enough to be thinking seriously of putting a P90 into my Fender Tele. I'm not a big fan of traditional Tele sounds though, so there's nothing for me to "miss" on that score.

Fishboy7 · September 2023

I love teles but never been 100% happy with any standard tele neck pickups. I live on the bridge pickup anyway but probably the best I've tried that slots straight in is the Lollar Royal T.

If you don't mind re-routing the cavity then a p90 is a wonderful option. As would a gold foil, Charlie Christian or dynasonic / filtertron etc.

rossi · September 2023

ICBM said:

rossi said:

Four way selector switch .A standard mod. .Makes the sound much fuller .You will have to earth the neck pickup cover .

But messes up the sound of the bridge pickup since the neck is not fully disconnected from the circuit, and still doesn’t sound that great in series.

You may not realise how much it’s affecting the sound unless you remove it and go back to traditional wiring.

never been that picky .I did reset pickup hights to get that humbucker ooommmph and found it improve all pickup tones .I use Van zandt and play and sing blues jazz ,country so the over all tone is only part of the equation .if your sitting in your bedroom it may well be more important .Surely if you stick a humbucker in the neck the caps are a compromise anyway for one or other of the pickups.

ICBM · September 2023

rossi said:

if your sitting in your bedroom it may well be more important

lol

It's really obvious when you hear it with a band too. I took the 4-way out of my friend's Tele - he's the guitarist in the band I play bass in - because he found the four positions confusing, he has two other Teles with three-way switches - and the difference in tone was HUGE. Far clearer and more properly Tele-like in the bridge position with the 3-way switch. (It doesn't affect the other two as the neck pickup is on anyway.)

As in you would have to be deaf not to hear it.

noisepolluter · September 2023

ICBM said:

rossi said:

Four way selector switch .A standard mod. .Makes the sound much fuller .You will have to earth the neck pickup cover .

But messes up the sound of the bridge pickup since the neck is not fully disconnected from the circuit, and still doesn’t sound that great in series.

You may not realise how much it’s affecting the sound unless you remove it and go back to traditional wiring.

I didn’t know this!

Been thinking about getting the 4 way and S1 switches taken out of my 60’s CP tele in any case, maybe get a set of Oil Cities in there. @ICBM ;How does it change the bridge pickup sound if you go back to traditional wiring?

ICBM · September 2023

noisepolluter said:

I didn’t know this!

Been thinking about getting the 4 way and S1 switches taken out of my 60’s CP tele in any case, maybe get a set of Oil Cities in there. @ICBM ;How does it change the bridge pickup sound if you go back to traditional wiring?

It makes it clearer and more Tele-like. I've heard it several times before with 4-ways, but it was really obvious on this one - a Baja Tele that comes stock with the S1 and 4-way. We took the S1 out first because it had started to become unreliable, and that didn't make a difference to the sound, but later he got fed up with the 4-way too - he likes to just knock the switch all the way to the front to get the neck pickup - so I replaced it with a 3-way, and that made a very noticeable difference.

The reason is that in the 4-way scheme, the neck pickup is switched at the *ground* end not the hot, so when the bridge pickup alone is selected, the neck pickup is still attached to the circuit, and that interferes with the sound of the bridge pickup even though no signal is actually coming from the neck. It doesn't affect the middle and neck positions because the neck pickup is then on and so grounded, the same as it would be in the standard wiring.

The bridge pickup was not adjusted during the work, nor the strings changed, so the difference is definitely the wiring.

theatreanchor · September 2023

I have P90s in my SG and they suit it just fine. Perhaps I'm a purist, or a snob, but a Tele should sound like a Tele - zingy and spanky! So I wouldn't use P90s in mine. But that's just my 2p.

Seziertisch · September 2023

ICBM said:

noisepolluter said:

I didn’t know this!

Been thinking about getting the 4 way and S1 switches taken out of my 60’s CP tele in any case, maybe get a set of Oil Cities in there. @ICBM ;;;How does it change the bridge pickup sound if you go back to traditional wiring?

It makes it clearer and more Tele-like. I've heard it several times before with 4-ways, but it was really obvious on this one - a Baja Tele that comes stock with the S1 and 4-way. We took the S1 out first because it had started to become unreliable, and that didn't make a difference to the sound, but later he got fed up with the 4-way too - he likes to just knock the switch all the way to the front to get the neck pickup - so I replaced it with a 3-way, and that made a very noticeable difference.

The reason is that in the 4-way scheme, the neck pickup is switched at the *ground* end not the hot, so when the bridge pickup alone is selected, the neck pickup is still attached to the circuit, and that interferes with the sound of the bridge pickup even though no signal is actually coming from the neck. It doesn't affect the middle and neck positions because the neck pickup is then on and so grounded, the same as it would be in the standard wiring.

The bridge pickup was not adjusted during the work, nor the strings changed, so the difference is definitely the wiring.

Interesting, I’ve had a similar experience removing the stereo out on a Rickenbacker.

I accidentally plugged into the stereo out in mono, getting only the bridge pickup, and realised it was so much clearer and punchier than when plugging into the mono out.

ICBM · September 2023

Seziertisch said:

Interesting, I’ve had a similar experience removing the stereo out on a Rickenbacker.

I accidentally plugged into the stereo out in mono, getting only the bridge pickup, and realised it was so much clearer and punchier plugging into the mono out.

Yes - by plugging into the stereo jack, you’re removing the loading of the neck volume control, which is always in the circuit even when the pickup is turned off with the switch, in the Rick scheme.

Seziertisch · September 2023

ICBM said:

Seziertisch said:

Interesting, I’ve had a similar experience removing the stereo out on a Rickenbacker.

I accidentally plugged into the stereo out in mono, getting only the bridge pickup, and realised it was so much clearer and punchier plugging into the mono out.

Yes - by plugging into the stereo jack, you’re removing the loading of the neck volume control, which is always in the circuit even when the pickup is turned off with the switch, in the Rick scheme.

It wasn’t a minor difference on the Rick, particularly as it was a 12-string, what with the top end detail being the main attraction.

I have a couple of guitars with 4-way switches which, although I enjoy the extra sound, I don’t use it enough to justify compromising the main attraction. Although on both guitars the bridge and neck are wired out of phase. So the series and parallel options are more cocked wah than extra chunk.

rossi · September 2023

The bridge pickup was not adjusted during the work, nor the strings changed, so the difference is definitely the wiring.

I adjusted hights after installation of the 4 way so maybe I dialled out the difference by compensating on hight .

Neilybob · September 2023

I've own a Tele (Fender Aerodyne) with a P90 in the neck and as mentioned above the neck pickup is really fat and the bridge pickup is really thin sounding. Gives an interesting middle position sound. Tbh I use the middle and neck position generally when playing.

I prefer my tele with a mojo gold foil in the neck and oil city nocaster in the bridge as it's a closer match. It also has a 5 way switch.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/fe3fb2144f8ff069e08033ab81c2411e518c6d97f93febf6b5

djspecialist · September 2023

Like @Neilybob , I also swapped out a P90 (Oil City Mighty 90) for a Goldfoil (Mojo), and prefer the latter. The bridge is (I think) a BKP Flat 50, which is a pretty good match.

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/3f881fa52de28e916d58275e403a9d7ebf268724608bfe0225

JJ72 · September 2023

I once had a mojo low wind p90 in a Tele neck position and as great as it was, even the low powered p90 complete overpowered the bridge pickup.
I now gave a double tap Q pickup in the neck and the high wind option sounds very p90ish to me whilst still matching the output of the bridge esquire pickup.
https://imgur.com/a/GyVZ982

victorludorum · September 2023

I would test a higher powered standard Tele sized neck pickup before getting the router out. There are quite a few choices out there. @OilCityPickups ' Hardman looks good to me and I've been close to buying one on a few occasions.

Neilybob · September 2023

Forgot to say I used own a dual P90 tele deluxe and that worked really well.

OilCityPickups · September 2023

victorludorum said:

I would test a higher powered standard Tele sized neck pickup before getting the router out. There are quite a few choices out there. @OilCityPickups ' Hardman looks good to me and I've been close to buying one on a few occasions.

I have a couple of other fatter, higher power options like the Liquidator neck too :-)

10thumbs · September 2023

The solution is simple.........

.......You need Another Guitar !

andy_k · September 2023

I wouldn't be routing a 52 Fender for anything, even a custom shop, ( resale devaluation ), but if it has already been done, I like to use a hot PAF in the neck.
I have a couple here, one with JB humbucker in bridge, and a Mighty Mite Motherbucker ( ceramic) in the neck, OOP in middle position, mahogany body, maple neck, so it doesn't sound very tele like at all, more like Greeny TBH, and I have another, my latest, which has a hot Mojo PAF in neck, and a Cream T Billy Gibbons Banger humbucker in bridge ( quite a low output TBH ), in a GSP Basses smuggler rout Ash body / maple neck- middle is in phase, but I have no tone pot, and it gets a nice thraty / woody sound when the vol is turned down, plenty of twang in bridge position, and a nice Santana style neck sound.
Louder neck pickups were a revelation to me, when paired with something hotter at the bridge, a JB, or JB Junior is around 14k, so something around 16k in the neck gets interesting. Lower output in the neck ( to reduce the muddiness) seems to give an underwhelming mid position.
YMMV.

OilCityPickups · September 2023

andy_k said:

I wouldn't be routing a 52 Fender for anything, even a custom shop, ( resale devaluation ), but if it has already been done, I like to use a hot PAF in the neck.
I have a couple here, one with JB humbucker in bridge, and a Mighty Mite Motherbucker ( ceramic) in the neck, OOP in middle position, mahogany body, maple neck, so it doesn't sound very tele like at all, more like Greeny TBH, and I have another, my latest, which has a hot Mojo PAF in neck, and a Cream T Billy Gibbons Banger humbucker in bridge ( quite a low output TBH ), in a GSP Basses smuggler rout Ash body / maple neck- middle is in phase, but I have no tone pot, and it gets a nice thraty / woody sound when the vol is turned down, plenty of twang in bridge position, and a nice Santana style neck sound.
Louder neck pickups were a revelation to me, when paired with something hotter at the bridge, a JB, or JB Junior is around 14k, so something around 16k in the neck gets interesting. Lower output in the neck ( to reduce the muddiness) seems to give an underwhelming mid position.
YMMV.

The problem with this is that DC resistance does not equal loudness or 'hotness' you can wind a 14k pickup with 43 gauge plain enamel wire and it will be as loud as a 16k pickup (if not a little louder) wound with 44 gauge poly wire. The number of wire turns around the bobbin and the power of the magnets are the only two major factors that change pickup output volume - apart from, of course, position relative to the string vibrating length :-) .

andy_k · September 2023

OilCityPickups said:

andy_k said:

I wouldn't be routing a 52 Fender for anything, even a custom shop, ( resale devaluation ), but if it has already been done, I like to use a hot PAF in the neck.
I have a couple here, one with JB humbucker in bridge, and a Mighty Mite Motherbucker ( ceramic) in the neck, OOP in middle position, mahogany body, maple neck, so it doesn't sound very tele like at all, more like Greeny TBH, and I have another, my latest, which has a hot Mojo PAF in neck, and a Cream T Billy Gibbons Banger humbucker in bridge ( quite a low output TBH ), in a GSP Basses smuggler rout Ash body / maple neck- middle is in phase, but I have no tone pot, and it gets a nice thraty / woody sound when the vol is turned down, plenty of twang in bridge position, and a nice Santana style neck sound.
Louder neck pickups were a revelation to me, when paired with something hotter at the bridge, a JB, or JB Junior is around 14k, so something around 16k in the neck gets interesting. Lower output in the neck ( to reduce the muddiness) seems to give an underwhelming mid position.
YMMV.

The problem with this is that DC resistance does not equal loudness or 'hotness' you can wind a 14k pickup with 43 gauge plain enamel wire and it will be as loud as a 16k pickup (if not a little louder) wound with 44 gauge poly wire. The number of wire turns around the bobbin and the power of the magnets are the only two major factors that change pickup output volume - apart from, of course, position relative to the string vibrating length :-) .

Completely agree, I was just using the DC resistance as a small measure of the 'power' of the pickup.
Traditional PAFs have a sweet spot around 8k, ( rule of 8 for a good LP), and the JB was originally wound to be a slightly 'hotter' version, was quite surprised when I see they are 14-16k.
Maybe they have evolved somewhat, and they are favourites among heavier players ( style, not weight)

OilCityPickups · September 2023

andy_k said:

OilCityPickups said:

andy_k said:

I wouldn't be routing a 52 Fender for anything, even a custom shop, ( resale devaluation ), but if it has already been done, I like to use a hot PAF in the neck.
I have a couple here, one with JB humbucker in bridge, and a Mighty Mite Motherbucker ( ceramic) in the neck, OOP in middle position, mahogany body, maple neck, so it doesn't sound very tele like at all, more like Greeny TBH, and I have another, my latest, which has a hot Mojo PAF in neck, and a Cream T Billy Gibbons Banger humbucker in bridge ( quite a low output TBH ), in a GSP Basses smuggler rout Ash body / maple neck- middle is in phase, but I have no tone pot, and it gets a nice thraty / woody sound when the vol is turned down, plenty of twang in bridge position, and a nice Santana style neck sound.
Louder neck pickups were a revelation to me, when paired with something hotter at the bridge, a JB, or JB Junior is around 14k, so something around 16k in the neck gets interesting. Lower output in the neck ( to reduce the muddiness) seems to give an underwhelming mid position.
YMMV.

The problem with this is that DC resistance does not equal loudness or 'hotness' you can wind a 14k pickup with 43 gauge plain enamel wire and it will be as loud as a 16k pickup (if not a little louder) wound with 44 gauge poly wire. The number of wire turns around the bobbin and the power of the magnets are the only two major factors that change pickup output volume - apart from, of course, position relative to the string vibrating length :-) .

Completely agree, I was just using the DC resistance as a small measure of the 'power' of the pickup.
Traditional PAFs have a sweet spot around 8k, ( rule of 8 for a good LP), and the JB was originally wound to be a slightly 'hotter' version, was quite surprised when I see they are 14-16k.
Maybe they have evolved somewhat, and they are favourites among heavier players ( style, not weight)

The Duncan JB had two versions - a fact hotly denied by Seymore Duncan, but nevertheless a fact: an early version that used PVA plain enamel wire like a PAF, but in 43 gauge making it somewhat of a hot 'PAF' at around 6000 turns per coil. At some point early in the JB's history - and at about the time it ceased to be associated with one particular artist - the wire gauge was changed to 44awg poly coated, (much easier to mass produce) and the turn count was increased to the pickup we know today. A couple of different UK companies, including my own, have made pickups 'very' similar the early JB as it's significantly more 'open' than the final incarnation.
Each gauge of wire has its own sweet spot by the way. With 42awg it's around 8k, for 43awg its 13-14k and for 44awg it's of course higher.

stickyfiddle · September 2023

FWIW I've never been particularly impressed with any stock Fender pickups even in CS stuff.

I just put a Lollar Special T in my latest MJT Tele and it's phenomenal. At the risk of using ridiculous adjectives to describe sounds and feelings, it's fat and squelchy and more satisfying than any P90 I've had.

It replaced a PAF style humbucker (Lollar Imperial low wind), and it suits the guitar far better. Even with appropriate wiring (500k pots and extra resistor so the bridge sees 250k) the PAF was fine but not amazing. Great on the middle position actually, but the contrast between neck & bridge was too much to set up a solid base tone on the amp.

menamestom · September 2023

I think a staple would be a better option from the P90 family, but personally I'd go for a Firebird pickup instead of a P90 as it would match the bridge pickup better.

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P90 Neck Pickup on a 52' Tele?

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