Lowden fans - need your opinion

LittleBlue · January 2023

I have played a Taylor 514CE for almost a decade now and its a beautiful guitar. But having spent a couple of hours in GG’s acoustic room, the Lowdens were the top for me, especially the F23 with cutaway. I’m quite a heavy strummer and plenty of my songs are high energy stomping folk songs. The Taylor definitely shines on the slower fingerstyle songs but I’m finding the sound rather thin on the rhythmic side of things.

So I’m considering a part-ex, but please let me know your Lowden opinions and what styles of music you play? Also what models.

TheMadMick · January 2023

I know what you mean. The F23 was my reference guitar. Please note that it is actually quite large.

Eventually, I went for an Avalon. Give them a ring and see what they might be able to do for you. The closest equivalent is the Pioneer auditorium size. They will make it with a walnut back and sides if you wish. Avalon formerly made Lowdens.

LittleBlue · January 2023

TheMadMick said:

I know what you mean. The F23 was my reference guitar. Please note that it is actually quite large.

Eventually, I went for an Avalon. Give them a ring and see what they might be able to do for you. The closest equivalent is the Pioneer auditorium size. They will make it with a walnut back and sides if you wish. Avalon formerly made Lowdens.

I used to play a Lowden style Black Mountain Tanglewood made in Spain. Loved the size and sound, and the F23 felt nice in Guitarguitar. Would definitely be happy playing a larger guitar. And know a lot about Avalon too. Will be looking at both for sure…unless someone can find me that Sedgwick double neck mando-Guitar…

Soupman · January 2023

I have a Lowden, an O25, cedar and rosewood. I used to pop I to a local dealers when on lunch break from work. I tried a few models over the weeks (his stock would change), then the O25 came in, after 3 chords I new I'd found the one.
So what I'm saying is they're not all the same. The O25 is a big body, lovely bass, almost piano sounding in its clarity. I mostly fingerpick, as I find it more satisfying - I don't do much strumming.
Different wood combos for different styles I suppose.

The build quality is top notch. I would never part with mine. I fitted an LR Baggs m1a soundhole pickup which is perfect for the odd open mic night. The sound guy always comments on the quality sound & the even string balance.
The string balance was one of the main factors in the guitar's initial appeal to me. It's also loud.
Recently I tuned it to DADGAD, I'm not into Irish reels & stuff, but it really SINGS in that tuning.
I know someone who has a couple of Taylor's and they are well built & sound good. Nice instruments.
Beyond that it's down to the model (size and wood preference) and your own style, but I wish you good luck in your choice!
Mike.

GRBaldwin · January 2023

Hi @LittleBlue ,

Just my two penneth worth here, but if you're a heavy strummer then I would seriously avoid a Lowden. As great as they are, they're fingerpicker guitars and with anything other than really light strumming the upper harmonic content just gets out of control for me, even with the F models. An Avalon is a much better shout for a more focused sound when strumming due to the bridge pin design and they also do the Celtic fingerpicked thing very well too. Much more versatile guitars in my opinion.

If you're local to Reading then give me a shout and you can try a few of the ranges out to see what you think. I've got an Americana Custom Slope D with Adirondack and Madagascar and it's an absolute beast!

All the best,

Graeme

LittleBlue · January 2023

GRBaldwin said:

Hi @LittleBlue ,

Just my two penneth worth here, but if you're a heavy strummer then I would seriously avoid a Lowden. As great as they are, they're fingerpicker guitars and with anything other than really light strumming the upper harmonic content just gets out of control for me, even with the F models. An Avalon is a much better shout for a more focused sound when strumming due to the bridge pin design and they also do the Celtic fingerpicked thing very well too. Much more versatile guitars in my opinion.

If you're local to Reading then give me a shout and you can try a few of the ranges out to see what you think. I've got an Americana Custom Slope D with Adirondack and Madagascar and it's an absolute beast!

All the best,

Graeme

Interesting about Lowdens and strumming. I have someone selling an Avalon nearby me, in South East London/Kent. Will definitely give it a go.

GRBaldwin · January 2023

LittleBlue said:

GRBaldwin said:

Hi @LittleBlue ,

Just my two penneth worth here, but if you're a heavy strummer then I would seriously avoid a Lowden. As great as they are, they're fingerpicker guitars and with anything other than really light strumming the upper harmonic content just gets out of control for me, even with the F models. An Avalon is a much better shout for a more focused sound when strumming due to the bridge pin design and they also do the Celtic fingerpicked thing very well too. Much more versatile guitars in my opinion.

If you're local to Reading then give me a shout and you can try a few of the ranges out to see what you think. I've got an Americana Custom Slope D with Adirondack and Madagascar and it's an absolute beast!

All the best,

Graeme

Interesting about Lowdens and strumming. I have someone selling an Avalon nearby me, in South East London/Kent. Will definitely give it a go.

Sounds like a plan. What tonewoods is it? If you want a new one with warranty at a fantastic price then give me a shout. Could always go custom build and get really fruity with it

They're the best custom shop in the whole of the UK & Ireland in my opinion. I'm happy to send over some stuff if you were interested.

LittleBlue · January 2023

GRBaldwin said:

LittleBlue said:

GRBaldwin said:

Hi @LittleBlue ,

Just my two penneth worth here, but if you're a heavy strummer then I would seriously avoid a Lowden. As great as they are, they're fingerpicker guitars and with anything other than really light strumming the upper harmonic content just gets out of control for me, even with the F models. An Avalon is a much better shout for a more focused sound when strumming due to the bridge pin design and they also do the Celtic fingerpicked thing very well too. Much more versatile guitars in my opinion.

If you're local to Reading then give me a shout and you can try a few of the ranges out to see what you think. I've got an Americana Custom Slope D with Adirondack and Madagascar and it's an absolute beast!

All the best,

Graeme

Interesting about Lowdens and strumming. I have someone selling an Avalon nearby me, in South East London/Kent. Will definitely give it a go.

Sounds like a plan. What tonewoods is it? If you want a new one with warranty at a fantastic price then give me a shout. Could always go custom build and get really fruity with it They're the best custom shop in the whole of the UK & Ireland in my opinion. I'm happy to send over some stuff if you were interested.

The one near me is a custom A7-330 with a Redwood top and walnut back and side. Almost a perfect combination for me albeit without the cutaway.

LittleBlue · January 2023

Saying that, I would have to part ways with the Taylor

LittleBlue · January 2023

Played the Avalon A7. Was a beautiful instrument. Definitely keeping an eye out now.

GRBaldwin · January 2023

LittleBlue said:

Played the Avalon A7. Was a beautiful instrument. Definitely keeping an eye out now.

Glad you enjoyed it. Avalon, Ireland’s best kept secret as they say.

How did you find the Redwood stood up to your heavy strumming? I would say Spruce all the way for that sort of stuff due to Redwood getting a little compressed when pushed. It’s still a lovely tonewood though and does work well with Walnut.

TheMadMick · January 2023

^^^

I'd quibble about that. I have a walnut and cedar Avalon A1-23C and I can't hear any compression. Maybe I'm not strumming hard enough? What I do know is the instrument is resonant and articulate and, to my ear, sounds better than the spruce topped equivalent - but that might just be guitar to guitar vairiance and personal preference.

achilleslondon · January 2023

I have had many Taylors (314, 414, 614, 814, 914, not all at the same time). When I found a Lowden F35c I was so stunned that I had to buy it. Eventually I sold all the Taylors that I had except the 614 (the maple one is quite specific) and the 414 to use as a everyday go-to guitar.
In the shop I was able to play the Lowden and a Taylor 814ce. There was no comparison between the two. I still like the Taylor's tone, but in terms of volume, definition, clarity of the notes, the Lowden was far superior.
Other Lowdens in the shop, also more expensive - e.g., F50 - were also very good but I liked that F35c more, with its combination of Alpine Spruce and Chechen.
I don't know why, but I hear more tonal differences in the Lowden range than in the Taylor range. So, I'd suggest you play and hear the guitar you are buying.

If I have to find a downside with the Lowden, it is that being so clear, defined and rich with harmonics, your playing will have to be cleaner. The Taylor is more forgiving.

PS. I play almost exclusively fingerstyle.

LittleBlue · January 2023

GRBaldwin said:

LittleBlue said:

Played the Avalon A7. Was a beautiful instrument. Definitely keeping an eye out now.

Glad you enjoyed it. Avalon, Ireland’s best kept secret as they say.

How did you find the Redwood stood up to your heavy strumming? I would say Spruce all the way for that sort of stuff due to Redwood getting a little compressed when pushed. It’s still a lovely tonewood though and does work well with Walnut.

It was very nice. Not as sweet as my taylor when played gently but superb. Very impressed when strapped, and playing when standing. Will have to find a spruce alternative to try.

brucegill · January 2023

Not sure I agree with the Avalon vs Lowden strumming thing. Both Avalons mentioned were based on American guitars, not like the rest of the range, that are quite obviously Lowden influenced.

The Lowden F shape was designed for picking from memory.

Lutz Spruce was good on a Lowden for heavier picking from experience and worth a look.

It’s very much about the wood combos on the Lowdens. They sound so different from each other.

Don’t go on what someone else says does or doesn’t work, just go with what you hear and like in person.

I’m quite surprised by a Cedar Toped F50 I’ve now got (used). I’ve never had Cedar as was always put off by what others had said about it. I think it’s now my favourite to be honest.

GRBaldwin · January 2023

brucegill said:

Not sure I agree with the Avalon vs Lowden strumming thing. Both Avalons mentioned were based on American guitars, not like the rest of the range, that are quite obviously Lowden influenced.

The Lowden F shape was designed for picking from memory.

Lutz Spruce was good on a Lowden for heavier picking from experience and worth a look.

It’s very much about the wood combos on the Lowdens. They sound so different from each other.

Don’t go on what someone else says does or doesn’t work, just go with what you hear and like in person.

I’m quite surprised by a Cedar Toped F50 I’ve now got (used). I’ve never had Cedar as was always put off by what others had said about it. I think it’s now my favourite to be honest.

Hi Bruce,

I mentioned one Americana that I have in particular that's incredible for strumming, but in general I was referring to all Avalons. My personal opinion, having owned lots of Lowdens and Avalons over the years, is that Avalons are a bit more focused and better suited for strumming than a Lowden purely to do with the bridge pin design. That's not to say Lowdens are bad at all, they're incredible guitars also, but as mentioned, I just feel they get a little bit 12 stringy sounding with the upper harmonic content with heavier strumming. This, as a result I've found, becomes a bit more of a nuisance with the notching out of super high frequency resonances when recording/mixing.

As you've mentioned, everyone is different, so of course people should buy what suits them, but I just wanted to offer my experience as a massive acoustic lover and recording/mix engineer.

All the best with the hunt for your new guitar @LittleBlue, it's almost the most exciting part of it for me, haha.

Graeme

brucegill · January 2023

Hi Graeme

I've only owned 2 Avalons but played a number of them a while back when I was looking. Absolutely lovely guitars for sure. I'm not knocking them - but I have always gravitated to the Lowdens personally. I've owned 4 Lowdens now, just the one at the moment. And 100% understand the overly busy harmonic side you mention. I have found though, string choice is a big part of this, and adapting to the instrument - I cant sit and bang on a Lowden like I can on a D18 for instance.

I guess to me, when you say focused, I think more about the mids being focused, like how a S vs a F vs a a Dread would change that mid focus.

Back to strings, I really struggled when the Lowden's were all strung with Elixirs in the shops to work out what I liked and what I didn't. Everything sounds over the top and brand new.

GRBaldwin · January 2023

Hi Bruce,

I couldn't agree more. Elixirs themselves have that over the top artificial super high end, which some people love, but personally it's too much for me. Great for a really cheap, dull sounding guitar, but for something like a Lowden that already has a bit of that inherent in it's sound it gets way too much and, like you say, the tonewoods don't shine through as much.

LittleBlue · January 2023

Really helpful guys. Ultimately, I always play guitars before buying so looking forward to finding that one that sings for me.

Benm39 · January 2023

I've got one of @brucegill Lowden guitars... F35 Lutz Spruce and Bog Oak. Whilst it is probably most at home when finger picked, and loves Drop D, Open D or DADGAD tunings, it's also perfectly at home being flat picked and strummed. Don't know if that's a combination of the oak stiffness and the Lutz spruce , body shape and/or strings but it certainly seems to sound fine to my ears at least. Currently string with Newtone Heritage strings, 12s at present.

They do seem to vary alot across models and wood combinations so would second the advice about trying the particular instrument you're thinking of buying. Will be a fun search no doubt!

ToneControl · January 2023

Avalons are built by the same people as Lowdens for 15 years, in the same workshop.
They are much cheaper second hand, and don't suffer from the issues caused by the glued on bridge
Other than that, they are currently not mass produced, and most of the models are based on the same design

I've voted with my feet, and own several

ToneControl · January 2023

GRBaldwin said:

LittleBlue said:

Played the Avalon A7. Was a beautiful instrument. Definitely keeping an eye out now.

Glad you enjoyed it. Avalon, Ireland’s best kept secret as they say.

How did you find the Redwood stood up to your heavy strumming? I would say Spruce all the way for that sort of stuff due to Redwood getting a little compressed when pushed. It’s still a lovely tonewood though and does work well with Walnut.

Yes, Redwood and cedar can be driven easier than harder spruces with fingerpicking.
Stiffer Adirondack has a lot of range with plectrum strumming, but harder to fingerpick. However some spruce tops are very sensitive with fingerpicking, so not all are the same - depends on the wood and the luthier's design.

Anyway, some people like cleaner electric rhythm playing, some like dirtier. Spruce will be crisper, redwood less so. Having said that, one of my redwoods sounds like there is some kind of harmonic exciter in play when fingerpicking

ToneControl · January 2023

brucegill said:

Hi Graeme

I've only owned 2 Avalons but played a number of them a while back when I was looking. Absolutely lovely guitars for sure. I'm not knocking them - but I have always gravitated to the Lowdens personally. I've owned 4 Lowdens now, just the one at the moment. And 100% understand the overly busy harmonic side you mention. I have found though, string choice is a big part of this, and adapting to the instrument - I cant sit and bang on a Lowden like I can on a D18 for instance.

I guess to me, when you say focused, I think more about the mids being focused, like how a S vs a F vs a a Dread would change that mid focus.

Back to strings, I really struggled when the Lowden's were all strung with Elixirs in the shops to work out what I liked and what I didn't. Everything sounds over the top and brand new.

My Avalon D300 Americana loses all those Lowdenesque overtones, and does work better for some pieces. It took me a while to realise that having those harmonics turned up to 11 didn't work for all music

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