Is this a bonkers idea? Seven or eight-string acoustic for close tunings

Stuckfast · January 2023

Some of my favourite fingerstyle guitarists use tunings that involve unison strings and/or strings tuned only a tone apart. Think Martin Carthy, Nic Jones, Alasdair Roberts etc.

Wondering whether there would be any mileage in a seven or eight-string guitar where the extra strings are not used to extend the range, but to fill in the gaps, as it were. For instance if you had an eight-string you could tune it DGADEGAD, or CGCEGGAC, or DADEF#GBD or something like that.

Thoughts? Would it just get too complicated? Has it been done already and I just don't know about it?

Tannin · January 2023

I think the first question to settle is can you happily cope with the width of a 7 or 8-string in normal tuning? It's a fair stretch, some people are comfortable with that, some are not.

If yes, then I think it is a great idea. There are lots of voicings you can do easily enough on a piano which just don't work on guitar (assuming standard tuning). It would be a major project to (a) get the guitar, (b) get it set up the way you want, and (c) master playing it, but a very worthwhile one.

Stuckfast · January 2023

Hmmm. I've never played a seven or eight-string guitar. I do have a pedal steel which at least gets the right hand used to playing across a wider range, I guess. Unless anyone already makes an acoustic with more than six strings it could be a bit costly!

Paul_C · January 2023

https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/classical-guitars/ortega-rce159-8-performer-series-8-string-guitar-natural-8-string-electro-acoustic-guitar-with-gig-bag?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=surfaces&gclid=Cj0KCQiAlKmeBhCkARIsAHy7WVum4S5JmtK5rZf_2d-omTM5RnGLG5dI4WL3ZaCl52-2F9rydUD_twsaAvECEALw_wcB

httpsstaticbax-shopesimageproduct922451352646789338c381650639685RCE159-8_1jpg

Paul_C · January 2023

https://www.rondomusic.com/Eight-String-Acoustics.html

Stuckfast · January 2023

Hmmm, trouble is those are all either classical guitars or fan fret / multiscale jobbies which is exactly not what I'm thinking of. A brief eBay search suggests that Ukrainian guitars are often strung with seven strings. I wonder how long Evri would take to deliver from Kyiv right now.

Choivert · January 2023

It appears sigma does (or did) one... See below for a link on reverb

https://reverb.com/item/51372607-sigma-dm7e-7-string-electro-acoustic-guitar?utm_source=android-app&utm_medium=android-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=51372607

ToneControl · January 2023

why not try a closer-interval tuning on a 6 string first?

People use a C6 tuning on 6 string lap steel for example, you don't need 8 strings to use smaller intervals

Tannin · January 2023

There are numerous makers building 7 and 8-string acoustic guitars. (Steel string ones, I mean.) Emerald and Stoll are two that occur immediately. Many (probably most) do them with fan frets for the very good reason that no single scale length is really properly suited to notes from a low B to a standard high E. Fan frets simply make a lot more sense on a 7-string.

Of course, in your case, that reason doesn't apply, but the fan frets will do no harm and it will always be cheaper to buy an instrument off the shelf than a custom-made one.

Stuckfast · January 2023

Choivert said:

It appears sigma does (or did) one... See below for a link on reverb

https://reverb.com/item/51372607-sigma-dm7e-7-string-electro-acoustic-guitar?utm_source=android-app&utm_medium=android-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=51372607

I saw that, but it's not a true 7-string. It's a 6-string with a doubled course for the G string to make it sound a little like a 12-string.

Stuckfast · January 2023

ToneControl said:

why not try a closer-interval tuning on a 6 string first?

People use a C6 tuning on 6 string lap steel for example, you don't need 8 strings to use smaller intervals

I have! That's why I'm interested in exploring the idea further.

Stuckfast · January 2023

Tannin said:

There are numerous makers building 7 and 8-string acoustic guitars. (Steel string ones, I mean.) Emerald and Stoll are two that occur immediately. Many (probably most) do them with fan frets for the very good reason that no single scale length is really properly suited to notes from a low B to a standard high E. Fan frets simply make a lot more sense on a 7-string.

Of course, in your case, that reason doesn't apply, but the fan frets will do no harm and it will always be cheaper to buy an instrument off the shelf than a custom-made one.

I should try a fan fret 7-string one of these days. I always think they are fugly as hell though. How well do they work with a capo?

ToneControl · January 2023

Stuckfast said:

ToneControl said:

why not try a closer-interval tuning on a 6 string first?

People use a C6 tuning on 6 string lap steel for example, you don't need 8 strings to use smaller intervals

I have! That's why I'm interested in exploring the idea further.

what tunings have you tried so far?

Stuckfast · January 2023

The tunings I regularly use are:

Open D
DADGAD
DADEAD
CADFAD
C#ADEAD
EACEAD
and occasionally open G

That's about as far away as I can go from standard tuning without having to restring with different gauges, change the nut etc.

Choivert · January 2023

Stuckfast said:

Choivert said:

It appears sigma does (or did) one... See below for a link on reverb

https://reverb.com/item/51372607-sigma-dm7e-7-string-electro-acoustic-guitar?utm_source=android-app&utm_medium=android-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=51372607

I saw that, but it's not a true 7-string. It's a 6-string with a doubled course for the G string to make it sound a little like a 12-string.

Ah man, I'm sorry I hadn't seen the second course on the G. Could you recut the nut and potentially saddle and make it a true seven? The question would be is the fretboard wide enough to play seven string comfortably.

You could also find a wide fretboard 6 string and add a banjo tuner or two to the top of the headstock big joe style. Maybe best not done to an expensive guitar.

Stuckfast · January 2023

That's not a bad idea, but going further, I the easiest thing to do would be to buy a cheap 12-string and replace the nut and saddle?

Choivert · January 2023

Stuckfast said:

That's not a bad idea, but going further, I the easiest thing to do would be to buy a cheap 12-string and replace the nut and saddle?

Yes this makes much more sense. Since a 12 string will have a wide fretboard too. I've seen a couple of people make their 12s into 11s with a single g string. No reason you couldn't go further. The benefit of this way is if you wanted to try a 8 string, you would only need another nut and saddle since you would have tuners spare (although less fretboard space per string)
.

Tannin · January 2023

Great thinking there. And you will have plenty of room for 7 strings if you are used to a standard 44mm nut. The standard 12-string nut is 50mm, with 48mm also common. A 50mm nut with 7 strings will have pretty much the same spacing as a 44mm nut with 6. It would be a bit squeezy for 8 but if you are one of those players who doesn't mind those dinky little 42.5mm nuts some Takamines use you'd be fine.

Experiment with a medium-cheap 12, if it works re-fit the original nut and saddle, sell it and buy something you really like. Great plan!

Stuckfast · January 2023

It's a plan! Thanks everyone, I wouldn't have thought of that approach by myself.

ToneControl · January 2023

Stuckfast said:

That's not a bad idea, but going further, I the easiest thing to do would be to buy a cheap 12-string and replace the nut and saddle?

Could be.

Take a look at M D Phillips Cleartone conversions to see this sort of approach done without luthier skills or financial investment - he tries to make do with the parts he has to hand.

With a new saddle and nut you could make it work, but might need more pronounced notches on the saddle to keep the string spacing even, since I assume some peg holes will be slightly off where you'd want them to be

Stuckfast · January 2023

ToneControl said:

Take a look at M D Phillips Cleartone conversions

That's exactly the sort of inspiration I'd rather avoid...

Stuckfast · January 2023

Stage one of the project is complete. *rubs hands*

Image: https://tfb-user-images.eu-central-1.linodeobjects.com/14f7afa723e9c3d4971c47fcde57dd2aa4ee3b665f8c2bc8a6

Choivert · January 2023

Ace! Keep us updated with how you get on. What did you buy in the end?

Stuckfast · January 2023

An old Japanese Martin D35 12-string copy. It looked nice in the photos, hope Parcelforce manage not to trash it.

JayGee · January 2023

Stuckfast said:

ToneControl said:

Take a look at M D Phillips Cleartone conversions

That's exactly the sort of inspiration I'd rather avoid...

I dunno. If you’re just experimenting to prove the concept, find out what works for you, and develop the details then a crude, ugly, kitchen table and hand tools kludge job on something cheap is just fine.

Experiment, make mistakes, even throw a couple away along the way, and then do something nice (or get an actual luthier to do mods or build something from scratch) once you’ve got clear ideas for what works and what you really need…

Stuckfast · January 2023

I've also ordered a new nut blank and saddle blank from Allparts. It probably will look a bit crude but at least those changes will be easy to reverse if it doesn't work out.

Stuckfast · January 2023

Bloody hell that was quick! I only ordered the parts yesterday morning and they're here already. Just need a guitar to fit them to...

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Is this a bonkers idea? Seven or eight-string acoustic for close tunings

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