Picks and Plectrums

guitarjack66 · August 2022

Inspired by a post which mentioned pick thicknesses I thought I'd raise a slightly different point about them. While most guitar teachers and even us players just blindly throw out pick thicknesses in terms of preferences I have found that picks of exactly the same thickness can still be more or less flexible or 'bendy' and I feel this is just as important as thickness,maybe even more so. Most of my favoured picks are in the .73 range but there are notable differences in their flexibility.

Is this point(haha!) often overlooked?

TheMadMick · August 2022

Stiffness is important - especially if you're struggling with the post picking click. I found the answer to that on Acoustic Guitar. You need to hold the pick nearer the picking area to minimise flexing. However, that does influence the tone.

To widen the debate - the other thing that makes a difference is how sharp the part of the pick is that comes into contact with the strings. The sharper the area, the brighter the tone.

Picks, the oft forgotten aspect of tone.

PS is the plural of plectrum not plectra - any classics scholars out there who can clarify?

guitarjack66 · August 2022

I'm a fan of rounded edges and more of the pick showing through my fingers than less. I just feel a bit more comfortable this way.
I certainly can hear stiffer picks sound more like the sound of their material,particularly plastic.

jaymenon · August 2022

TheMadMick said:

PS is the plural of plectrum not plectra - any classics scholars out there who can clarify?

the plural of ‘plectrum’ is indeed ‘plectra’

DavidR · August 2022

TheMadMick said:

Stiffness is important - especially if you're struggling with the post picking click. I found the answer to that on Acoustic Guitar. You need to hold the pick nearer the picking area to minimise flexing. However, that does influence the tone.

To widen the debate - the other thing that makes a difference is how sharp the part of the pick is that comes into contact with the strings. The sharper the area, the brighter the tone.

Picks, the oft forgotten aspect of tone.

PS is the plural of plectrum not plectra - any classics scholars out there who can clarify?

Yes. Latin 2nd declension noun. So like bellum (war). The plural nominative is therefore plectra. I actually failed Latin 'O'level in 1970 but I can still remember the declensions and conjugations, some of them anyway. Must have been beaten into me!

(Note that, in English usage, it can be a bit keen to use the Latin plural of nouns which have successfully leapt from Latin into English. Hence you could say forums, maximums, ultimatums etc. Not fora, maxima or ultimata. I suspect that the correct English for the plural of plectrum is therefore plectrums).

Or plectra. You choose.

What re really need here is a Stratocaster playing Latin professor! :-)

roberty · August 2022

1mm nylon is way more flexible than 1mm tortex. I think that is what makes nylon picks a bit nicer for acoustic

roberty · August 2022

DavidR said:

TheMadMick said:

Stiffness is important - especially if you're struggling with the post picking click. I found the answer to that on Acoustic Guitar. You need to hold the pick nearer the picking area to minimise flexing. However, that does influence the tone.

To widen the debate - the other thing that makes a difference is how sharp the part of the pick is that comes into contact with the strings. The sharper the area, the brighter the tone.

Picks, the oft forgotten aspect of tone.

PS is the plural of plectrum not plectra - any classics scholars out there who can clarify?

Yes. Latin 2nd declension noun. So like bellum (war). The plural nominative is therefore plectra. I actually failed Latin 'O'level in 1970 but I can still remember the declensions and conjugations, some of them anyway. Must have been beaten into me!

(Note that, in English usage, it can be a bit keen to use the Latin plural of nouns which have successfully leapt from Latin into English. Hence you could say forums, maximums, ultimatums etc. Not fora, maxima or ultimata. I suspect that the correct English for the plural of plectrum is therefore plectrums).

Or plectra. You choose.

What re really need here is a Stratocaster playing Latin professor! :-)

According to wikipedia:

"Plectrum" has both a Latin-based plural, plectra and a native English plural, plectrums.

I think you're probably okay unless you start mixing Latin and English plurals, eg "I have enough plectra to fill several stadiums"

BillDL · August 2022

Sex et dimidium duodecim. Linguae hodiernae pigrae fiunt et evolvuntur.

Soupman · August 2022

Or just call them picks....

fastonebaz · August 2022

I like to store all my picks inside my acoustic.

maltingsaudio · August 2022

Pick feel flexibility and tone is a big rabbit hole, yes different makes of pick at the same weight, differ enormously in feel and tone, you need to find the one that suits not only your style but also the guitar you are using. Reference my comments in the other thread using a heavier plectrum to get the strings vibrating more to get a better tone may improve your perception of how the guitar sounds, the downside is you are going to have to spend time adjusting your technique to accommodate the change in feel.

Mellish · August 2022

@maltingsaudio is right.

My favourite pick is a Dunlop Tortex red, point 50mm. Recently I bought a pack of 12. Even though they are the same make and same thickness, they don't all give the same sound

guitarjack66 · August 2022

Mellish said:

@maltingsaudio is right.

My favourite pick is a Dunlop Tortex red, point 50mm. Recently I bought a pack of 12. Even though they are the same make and same thickness, they don't all give the same sound

Absolutely. This is the thing when youtube and social media instructors talk about picks,they almost always only talk about thickness. Little mention of shape,triangular,teardrop,sharpened,round and so on,let alone the materials they are made from. It really isnt just a case of .77 or .83 or 1 or 2mm and so on.

Soupman · August 2022

With me, it's about grip - I like the tortex .50s (the red ones) but find they feel a bit slippery as soon as the satin finish wears off.
Someone got me some hobgoblin (the beer) ones which were about 1mm and decent, but I had to dribble bostick runs over them to grip!
Then I found the 0.50 Herco nylon ones which have a patterned top which I can keep hold of.

Fred Kelly makes identical thumb picks in either 'poly' or 'delrin' - the delrin ones sound warmer.
Your point about shape is also valid @guitarjack66 .
FK speed picks (delrin) have a narrow toungue (so more flex) and sound different to his regular shaped ones in the same material.
Gawd this is getting nerdy. Sorry mate!

Tannin · August 2022

DavidR said:

(Note that, in English usage, it can be a bit keen to use the Latin plural of nouns which have successfully leapt from Latin into English. Hence you could say forums, maximums, ultimatums etc. Not fora, maxima or ultimata. I suspect that the correct English for the plural of plectrum is therefore plectrums).

Or plectra. You choose.

What re really need here is a Stratocaster playing Latin professor! :-)

A forum plus another forum is two fora every time.
Maxima - yes.
Ultimata - a bridge too far.

As for plectrums (um, should I be saying "plectra", not sure about that one) when I used to use them I liked thinish, medium flexible ones with very rounded elliptical tips. I had a box of 100 or so, which lasted me for decades. Now I can't find them. (Not that I need to anymore, I'm fingers-only these days.)

With the rounded tip (and to some extent even with a sharp tip) you could vary the strength of the pluck by rotating your wrist a little so as to angle the plectrum at (say) 15 degrees to the string. That gives a much harder pluck because it is less prone to bend.

Failing those (after I wore them all out / broke them / lost them) the old Jim Dunlop .73 would always do at a pinch.

bertie · August 2022

its plectrums, its a word of latin origins that's been brought into the english language and "adapted"

Mellish · August 2022

@Soupman ;;; try liquid chalk on the Dunlop Tortex red.

I don't use it but you may find it makes the surface less "slippery"

Soupman · August 2022

@Mellish never heard of liquid chalk, so googled it. I see weightlifters use it for improved grip.
Thanks for the tip, but the plec isn't that heavy.....

randella · August 2022

roberty said:

1mm nylon is way more flexible than 1mm tortex. I think that is what makes nylon picks a bit nicer for acoustic

I use Dunlop Jazz III XLs. I like the Ultex ones (opaque) for electric - they're pretty much unyielding. The Jazz III XL standard black one, made from nylon, is the same thickness with a bit of flex in which I prefer for acoustic. The nylon gives a slightly nicer tone - probably making this up and it's certainly (massively) subjective but the nylon sounds ever so slightly less scratchy and brash to me.

Other than that, I like the pointy tip - I always disliked worn-out picks. Finally, and I think this is a big part of it, the Jazz picks are great to hold with the textured surface. There's something reassuring about them, I think that feel is important.

Anyway it's a rabbit-hole alright. I've been playing for decades now and only switched to these a few years back. Pretty much used Tortex up to that point.

Mellish · August 2022

@Soupman ; rock/speed climbers use it too. Forget weight, the primary function here is GRIP

guitarjack66 · August 2022

Soupman said:

With me, it's about grip - I like the tortex .50s (the red ones) but find they feel a bit slippery as soon as the satin finish wears off.
Someone got me some hobgoblin (the beer) ones which were about 1mm and decent, but I had to dribble bostick runs over them to grip!
Then I found the 0.50 Herco nylon ones which have a patterned top which I can keep hold of.

Fred Kelly makes identical thumb picks in either 'poly' or 'delrin' - the delrin ones sound warmer.
Your point about shape is also valid @guitarjack66 .
FK speed picks (delrin) have a narrow toungue (so more flex) and sound different to his regular shaped ones in the same material.
Gawd this is getting nerdy. Sorry mate!

Grip is very important to me too,but I keep meaning to buy those grip holders to try out. I dont fancy putting grip glue all over my hands so a grip would be better.

BillDL · August 2022

I've discovered a really good way to make a slippery pick more "grippy" without punching holes in it or putting stuff on your hands. Loctite Extreme No-Drip Gel. I think Asda still have it for about 3 quid a tube. It smells like two-part Araldite type epoxy (that smell you get from a modern catalytic converter exhaust after the eggy smell goes) and has that annoying epoxy stickiness before it dries on your fingers, but is just a one-part glue. I use it for loads of things where I want a strong bond but might need to break that bond later, something almost impossible with 2-part epoxies. It dries hard but not as rock solid and glassy as 2-part epoxy because it's designed to remain very slightly flexible, so although it doesn't have a sticky feel it's not marble smooth and provides a grip on celluloid picks. Just scrape the wide end across rough sandpaper or a concrete slab to provide a key for the glue and smear a bit onto both sides. It dries fully within a day.

Regarding the flexibility of picks, I used to use Dunlop Nylon ones for acoustic guitar because I felt that the "rubbery" flexibility created a strumming tone that was halfway between my thumb and a harder pick, but eventually I just reverted to strumming with my thumb at the edge of the nail when I wanted a softer sound and just palmed a 0.75mm (or thereabouts) celluloid that I used for sharper strumming sounds and picking. On electrics I used to use the thick small Gibson, Peavey and Fender teardrop picks because I felt that it made my picking more accurate and without any clackiness or latency caused by too flexible a pick, but eventually found they were too small for my arthritic fingers and I now use 0.9mm celluloid picks that have a tiny bit of flexibility that I now prefer.

jellyroll · August 2022

My top tips for helping with pick grip:

1. Holding the pick more LOOSELY helps. Counterintuitive but its true.

2. Logos aren't helpful for grip. (Also counterintuitive) IME, a smoother pick surface increases the surface are for the thumb to grip. So if you have a pick where the logo can be rubbed off...rub it off. Or else, try holding the pick upside down (logo facing the floor) to maximise the top surface where the thumb rests

3. Saliva - lick your finger & dab it against your thumb...hey presto magic grip

TheMadMick · August 2022

^^^ Sorry, couldn't disagree more. But if it works for you??

guitarjack66 · September 2022

I couldn't hold my pick any looser if I tried.

randella · September 2022

jellyroll said:

My top tips for helping with pick grip:

1. Holding the pick more LOOSELY helps. Counterintuitive but its true.

2. Logos aren't helpful for grip. (Also counterintuitive) IME, a smoother pick surface increases the surface are for the thumb to grip. So if you have a pick where the logo can be rubbed off...rub it off. Or else, try holding the pick upside down (logo facing the floor) to maximise the top surface where the thumb rests

3. Saliva - lick your finger & dab it against your thumb...hey presto magic grip

Agree wholeheartedly with 1). As for 2) I like logo picks (see above). I don't think it's about practical levels of grip, more 'feel' which is harder to define. I can't remember the last time I dropped a pick of any sort at home, the odd gig, or in rehearsal - but the Jazz IIIs just feel better to hold.

3) - I've never tried, to be honest. If it works...

It's all a personal thing really. Whatever does the trick.

stufisher · September 2022

My background is in materials science ... the variation in flexibility of plectra is entirely consequent to the thermo-mechanical properties induced by the moulding process.

The choice of polymer or composite or laminate determines the pressure-temp range for moulding and whilst the thickness of material is directly related to stiffness, (deflection) the rate of cooling (quenching) and proximity to Tg (glass transition temperature) determine its properties for end use.

Needless to say this is complex ... even for a simple device such as a plectrum. It is actually micro-engineering.

The combination of a human (with all of their individual traits and preferences) makes the overall system and the sound it produces a unique event or unique pairing.

Long may it continue.

guitarjack66 · September 2022

I can understand the saliva suggestion as we lick our fingers sometimes to turn pages of books and newspapers.

bertie · September 2022

boxer slobber, works a treat

guitarjack66 · September 2022

guitarjack66 said:

I can understand the saliva suggestion as we lick our fingers sometimes to turn pages of books and newspapers.

But didnt work at all for me. Maybe I should eat sugary foods first?

bertie · September 2022

anyone tried the Graphtech Tusq thumbpicks ?

being quite "stiff" I'd imagine they're not too giving/flexible on the thumb "fit"

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