Fan frets and slanted bridges

Tannin · August 2022

Now and then I think about ordering a fan-fret guitar. I'm confident that I would really like that for several reasons. The one thing that gives me pause is the angle of the bridge.

I play with my fingers, and habitually heel-rest on the top of the bridge (not all the time, sometimes I little finger rest, more often I let my hand float free). Heel-resting is a big part of my sound. I slightly mute the bass strings to get a nice thump-thump sound with my thumb, and play the other strings with my fingertips - the softness of my fingertips is offset by the fact that I'm plucking closer to the bridge than most players, so that gives me a reasonably balanced sound overall, not too bright, not too dull.

Here lies the problem: with the angled bridge of a fan-fret. If the heel of my hand is correctly positioned where the bass strings meet the bridge, my fingertips are going to sit at the very end of the (shorter) treble strings instead of a full hand's length away towards the sound hole, and that will sound awful. OK, I could just avoid heel-resting, but I doubt I'd be happy with that. Or I could drop my shoulder and elbow way down low to get a decent hand-string angle back, but I can't see that working. I don't have access to anything with fan frets to actually try things out.

(Similar considerations would apply to players who use a pick and heel-rest.)

* Who here owns or has played a fan fret?
* What impact does the slanted bridge have on your technique?
* Do you have any other comments to make about fan-frets?

GTC · August 2022

I have played a fan-fret (one of Alan Miller's fine instruments). I am not a "heel-rester" so I cannot comment on that. However, I expected it to feel very different and weird to a normal parallel fret guitar - but it didn't. It felt quite natural.

The only real downside for me was, with the increased scale length of the bass strings, it made some lower fret stretches (such as first to fifth fret) virtually unmanageable.

TheMadMick · August 2022

Frankly, I can't see the point of fan frets. The errors in normal frets are small enough not to be noticeable, it is why try to reduce them more? Besides, I've learned to fret without looking at the fretboard, why go through another tedious learning exercise.

Still, each to their own.

CavemanGrogg · August 2022

Tannin said:

Now and then I think about ordering a fan-fret guitar. I'm confident that I would really like that for several reasons. The one thing that gives me pause is the angle of the bridge.

I play with my fingers, and habitually heel-rest on the top of the bridge (not all the time, sometimes I little finger rest, more often I let my hand float free). Heel-resting is a big part of my sound. I slightly mute the bass strings to get a nice thump-thump sound with my thumb, and play the other strings with my fingertips - the softness of my fingertips is offset by the fact that I'm plucking closer to the bridge than most players, so that gives me a reasonably balanced sound overall, not too bright, not too dull.

Here lies the problem: with the angled bridge of a fan-fret. If the heel of my hand is correctly positioned where the bass strings meet the bridge, my fingertips are going to sit at the very end of the (shorter) treble strings instead of a full hand's length away towards the sound hole, and that will sound awful. OK, I could just avoid heel-resting, but I doubt I'd be happy with that. Or I could drop my shoulder and elbow way down low to get a decent hand-string angle back, but I can't see that working. I don't have access to anything with fan frets to actually try things out.

(Similar considerations would apply to players who use a pick and heel-rest.)

* Who here owns or has played a fan fret?
* What impact does the slanted bridge have on your technique?
* Do you have any other comments to make about fan-frets?

I have a fanned fretted acoustic, and it's actually really nice, an Ibanez AELFF10-NT. The stretches are actually easier I find on a fanned fret acoustic, 1st finger on the first fret of the 6th string and 4th finger on the 7-9th fret of the 5th string, is surprisingly easy. If you don't mind dropping a couple of hundred AUS, or there is one for sale locally, I'd highly recommend either buying one, or at the least trying one. The thing that makes the bigges difference I find is the location of the parallel fret. Not the fanned frets themselves. Would I have one as my only or main acoustic guitar, I honestly don't know, it's not common to see acoustics with fanned frets, so unless you go custom, your selection is rather limated, no to mention they tend to have the same nut idths as electric guitars, 43mm instead of 45mm, to me they're more aimed at electric guitar players who occasionally play an acoustic due to the nut width, it's in the so called ''fusion'' or ''cross over'' range. I do find that it makes me play, this particular acoustic, like an electric rather than how I usually play an acoustic, not technique wise, but style wise. I guess I'd say it's an esier to play acoustic, would be the easiest way to describe it.

CHRISB50 · August 2022

TheMadMick said:

Frankly, I can't see the point of fan frets. The errors in normal frets are small enough not to be noticeable, it is why try to reduce them more? Besides, I've learned to fret without looking at the fretboard, why go through another tedious learning exercise.

Still, each to their own.

They make sense if you play with a lot of alternate tunings. The varied scale length can help retain a more consistent tension in the strings if you tune down a lot.

I always fancied one but being left handed never got the chance to try one.

earwighoney · August 2022

Tannin said:

Now and then I think about ordering a fan-fret guitar. I'm confident that I would really like that for several reasons. The one thing that gives me pause is the angle of the bridge.

I play with my fingers, and habitually heel-rest on the top of the bridge (not all the time, sometimes I little finger rest, more often I let my hand float free). Heel-resting is a big part of my sound. I slightly mute the bass strings to get a nice thump-thump sound with my thumb, and play the other strings with my fingertips - the softness of my fingertips is offset by the fact that I'm plucking closer to the bridge than most players, so that gives me a reasonably balanced sound overall, not too bright, not too dull.

Here lies the problem: with the angled bridge of a fan-fret. If the heel of my hand is correctly positioned where the bass strings meet the bridge, my fingertips are going to sit at the very end of the (shorter) treble strings instead of a full hand's length away towards the sound hole, and that will sound awful. OK, I could just avoid heel-resting, but I doubt I'd be happy with that. Or I could drop my shoulder and elbow way down low to get a decent hand-string angle back, but I can't see that working. I don't have access to anything with fan frets to actually try things out.

(Similar considerations would apply to players who use a pick and heel-rest.)

* Who here owns or has played a fan fret?
* What impact does the slanted bridge have on your technique?
* Do you have any other comments to make about fan-frets?

I played a few and I found the ones with a significant difference between bass and treble, like the Lowdens were very difficult to find a sweet spot to pick, but the ones with a smaller difference were fine.

The Lowden btw was 680mm on the bass, and 635mm on the treble, it sounded great but it was very difficult to play when I picked it up in a guitar shop, maybe I'd have got used to it if I had more time to spend. I think I played a few instruments with a difference of 10mm between bass and treble and that was no problem at all to adjust to playing.

I don't think fan frets are for everyone but are worth trying to see if they suit you.

malcolmkindness · August 2022

I have played one and it was easier to adjust to than I thought it would be. Would I buy one? No. I think they are really designed for players who "noodle around" in open tunings a lot, if you are a regular player in standard tuning then you don't need one.

bertie · August 2022

I just dont play the kind of music that can be/would benefit from playing on a fan-fret much as @malcolmkindness ; mentions so would never own one, or want to.

earwighoney · August 2022

malcolmkindness said:

I have played one and it was easier to adjust to than I thought it would be. Would I buy one? No. I think they are really designed for players who "noodle around" in open tunings a lot, if you are a regular player in standard tuning then you don't need one.

I play entirely in open tunings, but I have never had any problems using my guitars for them. Occasionally I will switch between tunings and come across a tuning where a few tunings where a few of the strings will feel a bit floppy, but I could have solved that issue by using a few heavier strings either for those individual strings or just using a heavier set of strings.

I'd never need a fan fret guitar for my needs, but I'm sure there are some other guitarists who would find a fan fret guitar to be perfect for their needs.

Tannin · August 2022

Interesting responses, Fretboard Brains Trust.

I don't currently use open tunings (well, drop D once in a while). I reckon it's hard enough to get my poor little brain around one tuning, never mind other ones! Maybe some day.

If I went fan-fret, I'd almost certainly be having one built to order.

I think the main reason I am attracted to the idea is that I'm attracted to the idea of a 7-string. Something like this perhaps: https://www.tfoa.eu/en/stoll-iq-tamarind-fan-fret.html ; Or possibly even one of these: https://emeraldguitars.com/models/x20-7/

I am an ex-bass player and still love the low notes. On a normal guitar, my first string doesn't get used very often - just for decoration, the real music happens lower down. But low notes need long strings. Short-scale baritones are pretty poxy. On the other hand, a good baritone scale length (say 720mm) is way too long for the treble strings. Fan fret is the sensible answer. But would I get on with the bridge angle?

Yes, I need to try one. And I will if I happen to see one I can try in a shop or belonging to a friend. Sadly, that's unlikely. Maybe somewhere in Melbourne I'll hear of one - here in Tasmania it is unlikely.

CavemanGrogg · August 2022

Tannin said:

Interesting responses, Fretboard Brains Trust.

I don't currently use open tunings (well, drop D once in a while). I reckon it's hard enough to get my poor little brain around one tuning, never mind other ones! Maybe some day.

If I went fan-fret, I'd almost certainly be having one built to order.

I think the main reason I am attracted to the idea is that I'm attracted to the idea of a 7-string. Something like this perhaps: https://www.tfoa.eu/en/stoll-iq-tamarind-fan-fret.html ; Or possibly even one of these: https://emeraldguitars.com/models/x20-7/

I am an ex-bass player and still love the low notes. On a normal guitar, my first string doesn't get used very often - just for decoration, the real music happens lower down. But low notes need long strings. Short-scale baritones are pretty poxy. On the other hand, a good baritone scale length (say 720mm) is way too long for the treble strings. Fan fret is the sensible answer. But would I get on with the bridge angle?

Yes, I need to try one. And I will if I happen to see one I can try in a shop or belonging to a friend. Sadly, that's unlikely. Maybe somewhere in Melbourne I'll hear of one - here in Tasmania it is unlikely.

I also have 7 string acoustics, none of them are fan fretted though, and to be honest, I find the 7th string more useful to use as a sort of drone.

I'd honestly adsvise you to try a few different fanned fretted acoustics before you either buy one of have one made for you, all fanned fretted guitars have 1 paralell fret - basically a standard fret, and where this fret is located really effects how the instrument feels and plays - if you google image fanned fretted guitars and pay attention to the frets you'll notice that different manufacturers, and even models from the same manufacturer will have the paralell fret in a position, it's the same with electrics. As far as the bridge/saddle angle goes, it really is a non issue, I like to lean/rest on the bridge without muting the strings, and there is honestly no difference in my hand position compared to a non fan fretted guitar, the only difference is that when I play fan fretted guitars, I lean a different part of my picking hand on the bridge compared to a non fan fretted guitar.

WezV · August 2022

for me its almost all about tension, and how the right tension helps the string ring more effectively

It makes sense to have bass strings longer and fatter than treble strings. You see this in many other instruments The example i normally give is an overstrung vs straight strung upright Piano.

Image: https://vennpianos.co.uk/_data/site/227/pg/15/IBACH-3.jpg

Image: https://www.yourpianoman.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Straight_strung_piano.jpg

Most will tell you that the overstrung piano sounds much better than a straight strung one, especially on the bass notes. It will be richer and more resonant simple from allowing the strings to be longer. Straight strung piano's sound undeniably farty on those bass notes.

Obviously guitars are not Pianos. The guitar is usually a compromised fixed scale. It's a comprise that works well for most things. It starts to fall down when you push the guitar design outside its normal limits, the compromise becomes much more noticeable once when you are using weird tunings or adding extra strings. The compromise is still there on a 6 string guitar, but it is a perfectly acceptable compromise for most.

Fanned frets can fix that compromise, and allow for more appropriate string length and tension per string. For me that is essential on a extended range instrument, and sometimes nice to have on a normal one.

The playability will depend on how the fan is laid out and the difference between scale lengths. You can have it from 12th fret, so bridge and nut are equally angled, or you can move the straight fret either side so either bridge or nut end up straighter

I've done a few electrics, never finished my full fanned fret acoustic build, but do have a fully hollow thinline i have kept for me. The bass response and sustain is much improved over a normal thinline, and it works well in standard tuning despite the bass string being 2" longer than teh treble

CavemanGrogg · August 2022

WezV said:

for me its almost all about tension, and how the right tension helps the string ring more effectively

It makes sense to have bass strings longer and fatter than treble strings. You see this in many other instruments The example i normally give is an overstrung vs straight strung upright Piano.

Most will tell you that the overstrung piano sounds much better than a straight strung one, especially on the bass notes. It will be richer and more resonant simple from allowing the strings to be longer. Straight strung piano's sound undeniably farty on those bass notes.

Obviously guitars are not Pianos. The guitar is usually a compromised fixed scale. It's a comprise that works well for most things. It starts to fall down when you push the guitar design outside its normal limits, the compromise becomes much more noticeable once when you are using weird tunings or adding extra strings. The compromise is still there on a 6 string guitar, but it is a perfectly acceptable compromise for most.

Fanned frets can fix that compromise, and allow for more appropriate string length and tension per string. For me that is essential on a extended range instrument, and sometimes nice to have on a normal one.

The playability will depend on how the fan is laid out and the difference between scale lengths. You can have it from 12th fret, so bridge and nut are equally angled, or you can move the straight fret either side so either bridge or nut end up straighter

I've done a few electrics, never finished my full fanned fret acoustic build, but do have a fully hollow thinline i have kept for me. The bass response and sustain is much improved over a normal thinline, and it works well in standard tuning despite the bass string being 2" longer than teh treble

For me the attraction for fanned frets and reversed Fender headstocks is all down to string tension, longer bass strings and shorter trable strings, nothng to do with tuning.

EreforGuitarGear · August 2022

Currently selling my fan fret ibanez… just saying.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Fan frets and slanted bridges

Comments