Can you buy a decent 70s acoustic for 300-400 quid?

lovestrat74 · June 2022

Looking for an acoustic with a bit of character from the 70s - well if you can't afford an electric from the decade you were born get an acoustic

What should I look out for and what should I avoid.

It will only be used at home...

bertie · June 2022

Yamaha

Tama

"some" of the early Washburns were OK

Levin perhaps

not sure you'll find any "all solid" for that tho

lovestrat74 · June 2022

bertie said:

Yamaha

Tama

"some" of the early Washburns were OK

Levin perhaps

not sure you'll find any "all solid" for that tho

I am aware of the love for yamaha, but what models? There seems to be lots and also made in Japan vs Taiwan..

bertie · June 2022

ok, if you want more specifics, what about preference for model/type ? ie Dread ? OM ? etc back then Dreads were much much more easy to come by

lovestrat74 · June 2022

bertie said:

ok, if you want more specifics, what about preference for model/type ? ie Dread ? OM ? etc back then Dreads were much much more easy to come by

No bigger than a dread and no 12th fret neck joins. Other than that I am pretty open. This will be just a noodler to have around the house when I get that unplugged urge.

Mellish · June 2022

Epiphone Dove? Though a 70s one may take some finding

Andy79 · June 2022

@lovestrat74 I have a 1976 Yamaha FG-335 in the classifieds. If it floats your boat at all drop me a message. For a long standing fretboarder like yourself I can do it for the cost of shipping and packing

Mellish · June 2022

^^^ now *there's* a bargain!

Andy79 · June 2022

In my opinion regarding the Taiwan vs Japan thing. Absolutely no difference in build or sound. It’s just a thing that has happened over the years. Japan is better blah blah
Infact I’m pretty sure they took tooling and materials from Japan to Taiwan. Same same same

crunchman · June 2022

As well as Yamaha you have brands like Kimbara and Daion that you might come across. Some of them can be quite good.

Andy79 · June 2022

crunchman said:

As well as Yamaha you have brands like Kimbara and Daion that you might come across. Some of them can be quite good.

Daion L999 yes please……..

ICBM · June 2022

Eko.

Really.

No, they do not sound like a Martin or a Taylor, but they have *character*, they do sound 'good' in an old-plywood-guitar way, and most importantly they are both nearly indestructible and very easily adjusted to give a good playable action because most models have both an adjustable bridge and a bolt-on neck which can be shimmed. The only common issue to look out for is cracking of the bridge along the pin hole line - it's rarely a structural problem but can make the pins tend to pop out, and is relatively easy to fix.

Old Yamaha FGs can also sound very nice, but often have neck angle and top bellying problems which mean that getting a low action without shaving the bridge to an extreme extent can be difficult - and resetting the neck is even harder due to the type of glue used.

Many other Japanese brands also sound pretty decent if you're not expecting a detailed, responsive modern sound but just want something warm and characterful.

All of these should be well within your budget.

Stuckfast · June 2022

Some of the Yairi guitars are absolutely excellent, but they are not all that common and I don't know whether you're likely to find one in your budget.

TheMadMick · June 2022

Have you seen the Tanglewood dread for sale here?

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/226796/tanglewood-tw28st-acoustic-guitar-105

The reviews seem OK as does the sound on YouTube. It's only £105. Nowt about carriage. Could be worth a punt?

bertie · June 2022

TheMadMick said:

. Could be worth a punt?

new in 2000 ?

lovestrat74 · June 2022

Should have said that Andy and I have done a gentlemanly trade for his 76 Yam

bertie · June 2022

lovestrat74 said:

Should have said that Andy and I have done a gentlemanly trade for his 76 Yam

Andy79 · June 2022

lovestrat74 said:

Should have said that Andy and I have done a gentlemanly trade for his 76 Yam

We will keep this going. It will be interesting to have your thoughts on weather it actually is a decent 70s guitar……

lovestrat74 · June 2022

Andy79 said:

lovestrat74 said:

Should have said that Andy and I have done a gentlemanly trade for his 76 Yam

We will keep this going. It will be interesting to have your thoughts on weather it actually is a decent 70s guitar……

Well I be no expert but I hope it doesn't lead me down a whole new rabbit hole

DavidR · June 2022

ICBM said:

Eko.

Really.

No, they do not sound like a Martin or a Taylor, but they have *character*, they do sound 'good' in an old-plywood-guitar way, and most importantly they are both nearly indestructible and very easily adjusted to give a good playable action because most models have both an adjustable bridge and a bolt-on neck which can be shimmed. The only common issue to look out for is cracking of the bridge along the pin hole line - it's rarely a structural problem but can make the pins tend to pop out, and is relatively easy to fix.

Old Yamaha FGs can also sound very nice, but often have neck angle and top bellying problems which mean that getting a low action without shaving the bridge to an extreme extent can be difficult - and resetting the neck is even harder due to the type of glue used.

Many other Japanese brands also sound pretty decent if you're not expecting a detailed, responsive modern sound but just want something warm and characterful.

All of these should be well within your budget.

The reason for the bellying of the top in old FG's is that the tops were relatively thin. This was a deliberate feature of the build. Later FG's corrected it. But in a 1970's FG (I had one back then), that would have given you a dreadnought which sounded nice, was cheaper than US imports and was well built. Move on 50+ years and some (not all) FG's have sort of failed. The 'weak' tops have bellied outward, as ICBM has said, due to string pressure and as a result the bridges have risen significantly above the level of the fingerboard. No amount of fiddling with the action (deepening nut slot depth, lowering bridge saddle, altering neck relief) will correct this and a rebuild is expensive as he said.

You should easily find an old FG on which the top hasn't bellied though. The world is full of old FG's. They have been one of the best-selling acoustics ever, and were/are beloved of students and older players alike.

You have to inspect an old FG before you buy it. Just looking is usually enough. Eyeball the top and the action at the 12th fret. Look down the fingerboard from the head end so the perspective flattens. From there you will easily see the action diverging along the fretboard, the top bellying - and also any twisting of the fingerboard, less common. Play it too of course! A luthier would lay a long straight edge along the top to demonstrate the bellying but you don't usually have to do that. I have deliberately never bought an old FG because I think I would be romanticising their worth and because new FG's are still tremendous value. I have an FG830 bought in 2021 (£349 currently) and an FG5 bought in 2020 (£1,140). Both good.

Still wish I'd never sold my old FG though, knowing what I have learnt since my 'yoof'.

Happy hunting lovestrat74 :-)

bertie · June 2022

didnt some old Eko's have a bellied back ?

ICBM · June 2022

bertie said:

didnt some old Eko's have a bellied back ?

Slightly - so do Guilds. In fact most flat-tops have a slightly curved back end-to-end, even if it's not arched across the width as well. It's stronger than a completely flat back.

All flat-top guitars have bellied tops too - it's inevitable once the string tension is applied. But there's a difference between a slightly arched back as a design feature, a predictable amount of top rise that's accounted for when calculating the neck angle, and what happens to slightly underbuilt tops like the Yamaha FGs had after a few decades.

The second part of the problem is that Yamaha used a synthetic glue - I think a variety of epoxy - to fit the neck, so the standard solution of resetting the neck to increase its angle is difficult and costly, much more than on a more valuable old Martin etc, and probably uneconomical in most cases. The result is that you see a lot of old FGs with the bridge (not just the saddle) shaved right down to try to get the action playable - unfortunately this also thins the tone.

Tannin · June 2022

Stuckfast said:

Some of the Yairi guitars are absolutely excellent, but they are not all that common and I don't know whether you're likely to find one in your budget.

Yairis aren't Yairis. There are three Yairis:

* S Yairi - once hand-made in Japan by a master, but that was long, long ago. Now just another brand stuck on the usual cheap Chinese stuff.

* H Yairi - S. Yairi's son, manufacturing under his own name. No longer in business.

* K Yairi - nephew of S Yairi. Made his own guitars in his own way for many years, and damn good ones. He is no longer with us and the K Yairi brand is now part of the Alvarez empire, but (unlike other Alvarez products) is still made in Japan. K Yairi is, of course, the one to have. Second-hand, they tend to be real bargains as I suspect their name gets tainted by association with the cheap Chinese ones.

(Don't tell everyone or the bloody price will go up.)

Andy79 · June 2022

ICBM said:

bertie said:

didnt some old Eko's have a bellied back ?

Slightly - so do Guilds. In fact most flat-tops have a slightly curved back end-to-end, even if it's not arched across the width as well. It's stronger than a completely flat back.

All flat-top guitars have bellied tops too - it's inevitable once the string tension is applied. But there's a difference between a slightly arched back as a design feature, a predictable amount of top rise that's accounted for when calculating the neck angle, and what happens to slightly underbuilt tops like the Yamaha FGs had after a few decades.

The second part of the problem is that Yamaha used a synthetic glue - I think a variety of epoxy - to fit the neck, so the standard solution of resetting the neck to increase its angle is difficult and costly, much more than on a more valuable old Martin etc, and probably uneconomical in most cases. The result is that you see a lot of old FGs with the bridge (not just the saddle) shaved right down to try to get the action playable - unfortunately this also thins the tone.

I’ve had a neck off a 1971 FG-140 and it was hide glue. Just lots of it. And lots. Also there was glue on the joint between the back of the heel/body joint which is partly why I believe they are such a bastard to remove
I can’t speak for the whole line but that particular was constituted with non synthetic glue

Its not a great surprise, the billions of American catalog guitars were solid wood and hide glue made, you can see it squeezed out of every joint. These days hide glue is a selling point for 5k Gibsons. Back then it was , well, glue…..

ICBM · June 2022

Andy79 said:

I’ve had a neck off a 1971 FG-140 and it was hide glue. Just lots of it. And lots. Also there was glue on the joint between the back of the heel/body joint which is partly why I believe they are such a bastard to remove
I can’t speak for the whole line but that particular was constituted with non synthetic glue

Interesting! I've never tried to take one off personally, because the info I could find suggested something synthetic.

maltingsaudio · June 2022

Fender F series well worth a look here’s my F55 from 1975 still straight and worth twice as much as I paid for it!

Soupman · June 2022

Hey @maltingsaudio ; I've got one of those! Fender F55-12. Got a neck that makes a baseball bat seem like a shredder's dream! (The guitar, not me)

It doesn't get much use these days.

maltingsaudio · June 2022

Soupman said:

Hey @maltingsaudio ; I've got one of those! Fender F55-12. Got a neck that makes a baseball bat seem like a shredder's dream! (The guitar, not me) It doesn't get much use these days.

Cool , I still play mine regularly, it’s a 12 string so you don’t ( or I don’t) expect it to be like a6 string

ICBM · June 2022

maltingsaudio said:

When I saw that pic at first on a phone I thought you’d got it strung Roger McGuinn style as a 7-string with only the octave G.

... but then realised it’s just got five black pins

.

Mellish · June 2022

@ICBM ; - Interesting character, Roger McGuinn.

He has an unorthodox fingerpicking style. He uses a flatpick between thumb and index and where picks would normally go he shifts them over one, at least he was doing that a few years ago

stufisher · June 2022

A bit left field and probably not what you have in mind @lovestrat74 but I've just spotted this on Gumtree.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/1981-aria-electric-acoustic-made-in-japan/1435995685

I always believed Aria to be good quality and VFM but I'm not a subject matter expert ... I think @ICBM knows about this stuff though, so might be worth a discussion if you are interested.

If not then perhaps someone else might wanna take a punt.

Stu

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Can you buy a decent 70s acoustic for 300-400 quid?

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