NGD - Parlour Guitar

BillDL · June 2022

Fender CP-60S parlour guitar in sunburst - New for £158.

Seeing a Fret King parlour guitar selling in the classifieds here a few days ago and reading the thread seeking suggestions for a small bodied guitar to take away in a campervan rekindled my curiosity about parlour guitars. I didn't want to spend a lot and for once I didn't even look to see if Thomann have a Harley Benton parlour guitar! I have worked on a few sub-£250 Fender acoustics for other people and I was quite impressed by the CD-60S (dreadnaught solid soundboard and laminated back and sides), the CC-60S (same in "concert" size), and the CF-60CE (all laminate "concert" shape with piezo). They were well made and, despite having laminated woods in their construction, sounded nice and were very comfortable. The CP-60S is just the CD/CC-60S in the parlour sized body.

The specifications are (some corrected from old or wrong spec on the Fender website):

Body back and Sides: Laminated Mahogany with Scalloped X bracing, fine multi-ply b-w-b-w binding on top edge, and black binding on back edge.
Soundboard: Solid Spruce with pearloid rosette and narrow multiply black/white inlay.
Neck: Mahogany with walnut fretboard, black binding, and dual-action truss rod, joins body at 14th fret. Long scarfe joint from 2nd fret to half way in 1st fret space. Small volute at headstock/neck. (see my follow on comment about the neck profile)
Scale Length: 24.75" (629 mm)
Fretboard: 12" (305 mm), 20 vintage style frets, bone or bone-like nut 1.69" (43 mm), and small 3mm pearloid dot inlays and small white side dots.
Bridge: Walnut with bone or bone-like compensated saddle.
Tuning Machines: Open frame 2-screw tuners with chrome spade buttons and push-in post bushings.
Strap Buttons: Chrome larger than normal heads with top one being on the upper bout an inch from the heel and an inch down from the soundboard.
Lacquer Finish: Gloss urethane all over with 3-tone sunburst top.
Dimensions: 43.4" length x 18.2" lower bout width x 6" body depth (1,102.36 x 462.28 x 152.4 mm).
Weight: 3.57 Kg.
Strings: Factory fitted with Fender Dura-Tone Coated 80/20 Bronze (0.012 to 0.052 gauge).

The specifications say that it is the "Fender 'Easy-to-Play' fretboard with rolled edges". While the fretboard edges aren't really sharp, it doesn't have proper "rolled" edges like the CD and CC-60S guitars I've played that had unbound fretboards. Perhaps on a previous version the fretboard was unbound and rolled. I've never seen a guitar with a bound fretboard and rolled edges because I don't think it would be easy to get a consistent rolling of the edges on plastic binding.

I really just wanted a nice small guitar to cart around places easily or lie on the couch and play rather than searching for a specific tone like some old drifting blues troubadour sitting on a lobster pot in the Mississippi Delta, or like Woody Guthrie in a dusty boxcar behind a loco huffing and kachunking its way across America. I expected that it would sound a bit "boxier" and less bassy than a larger bodied guitar though (see a separate discussion of what "boxy" means to different people). This isn't truly a parlour sized and shaped guitars as per old 1800s guitars, but it's probably small enough to qualify.

A sunburst finish on an acoustic guitar is as polarising as Marmite. I normally prefer a plain spruce top or a dark brown sunburst, but the bright sunburst on this guitar is very well executed and I liked it because it reminds me of the first guitar I had around the age of 8 - a "Hofnerish" (probably East German or Czechoslovakian) with a beautiful gloss sunburst.

Out of the box, straight from Indonesia, it was almost in tune with itself but about a full tone down. The neck relief is absolutely perfect as are the depths of the nut slots. The ONLY setup this will need, other than smoothing off the fret ends a tiny bit, will be filing a sliver off the bottom of the saddle or swapping it for a bone one that I have among my spare parts. The neck is perfectly playable without any discomfort from the fret ends, but I like them really smooth.

The tuners are a bit stiff to turn because the cogs and worms shafts don't appear to have any lubrication, but they don't have any wobble or slop and a drop of oil or a dab of chapstick on the mechanisms when i change strings will sort that. I'm not considering changing them for now.

The walnut fretboard is fairly smooth but a bit dry and needs oiling, as does the bridge. A couple of the frets show the tiniest bit of height disparity using a fret rocker where this would only matter on an electric guitar with very low action. It will not affect the fretting on an acoustic guitar with a normal relief and action. I would say that the fretwork has been well executed. the narrow vintage frets will take a bit of getting used to as they are skinnier than on most of my other acoustics.

I've had a look inside with a mirror and the construction is really good for a guitar of this price. There are very few glue runs (they are pretty small anyway), the braces are nicely shaped and finished, and the bridge plate looks adequate. The binding, neck dots, and inlaid rosette have all been well done, and the lacquer finish is flawless.

I was quite surprised by the sound projection. The soundhole is 10cm / 4" in diameter, so it's no different from most acoustic guitars. It is a little bit lacking in bass reponse, but I am surprised by how much there is for a body this size. It's actually quite articulate, albeit a little bit "punchy" and direct, when fingerpicked around th middle of the soundhole, and it gives a nice twangy banjo-esque zing when finger or plectrum picked behind the soundhole. It's hard to describe the overall sound when compared with a "concert" or dreadnaught sized guitar because I have almost zero experience playing a parlour guitar, but I would say that it is "tighter" and more "direct". There is a slight boxiness, but it is definitely not an unpleasant boxy sound like a thick plywood beginner's guitar. I'm sure the difference in tone and general feel will be like a breath of fresh air and perhaps I might consider a more expensive model in the future.

A small guitar like this is fun to play and is a lot more portable than even a smaller bodied "concert" sized one, however I will need to try and find a lightweight case that fits more snugly than the classical gig bag I currently have it in. I would urge anybody who is curious about a parlour guitar to at least play one in a store. You might be pleasantly surprised. Despite being an affordable guitar I think this one is pretty good value for what it is, and has a perfectly acceptable tone for most people that are looking for a portable guitar or one that is comfortable to play lying back on the couch.

Sassafras · June 2022

I've got a couple of parlour guitars and I love what I would describe as their liveliness and jangliness.
They're also very comfortable to play.

BillDL · June 2022

Yes, that's a good description. Why is it so difficult to describe sounds?

bertie · June 2022

dont often (note the use of "often" not ever) see 14 fret parlors...........

what's the neck profile ?

I think parlors are about the only guitars (for me) that get away with a BS finish, Im (was) still no over enamoured - but my TW73 is a BS and am now very used to it - gives it a more vintage vibe I think

BillDL · June 2022

I've never been very good at gauging or describing neck profiles. About 20mm deep under the 1st fret, almost no taper with a depth of about 22mm under the 9th fret before it begins to graduate evenly to the heel. Shallow C I would say. I don't have a profile gauge or I would post photos of the actual profile. It's perfect for me. I don't like shallow necks on an acoustic but I don't like them as chunky as I do on, for example, my most comfortable moderately chunky tele necks.

[EDIT] Good point about the 14th fret join. It could well sound different from most of the other parlour guitars with the more standard 12th fret join.

bertie · June 2022

the main "stand out" for many parlors is V/soft V versus more rounded ie D or C - many makes go twards the V types (more vintage I believe) but I really dont get on with the V variants

(oh and you might want to pop this over to the "acoustic" section

BillDL · June 2022

bertie said:
(oh and you might want to pop this over to the "acoustic" section

Done

Gandalph · June 2022

You've gotta love a little Parlour guitar.

It's amazing what some of these companies are knocking out nowadays for sub £200.

Nice write up too

BillDL · June 2022

thank you Galdalph

Mellish · June 2022

@BillDL ; - sounds like you're very pleased with it. Congrats on your NGD mate

thermionic · June 2022

I like the idea of a smaller bodied acoustic for basically pocket money… but does it really weigh 3.57kg?

Sassafras · June 2022

A bonus with these little things is that women rarely object to them "cluttering up the place".
They see them more as decorations.

BillDL · June 2022

thermionic said:

I like the idea of a smaller bodied acoustic for basically pocket money… but does it really weigh 3.57kg?

I didn't actually intend to leave that in there. I was copying and pasting spec from two sources then editing it while I looked at the guitar. There's no way it weighs that much. It's a bit lighter than a fairly normal OM sized guitar. I will try to get an approximate weight when I get home from work in the morning but it will be using a set of old bathroom scales and some fat lumpy geezer doing the tare weight thing with the guitar.

DavidR · June 2022

Sounds great value.

Lower priced Parlour guitars definitely seem a trend at present. 00 size and below (that's my personal definition!) easier to play on sofas and benches? Better selection in low price range? One of Fenders other 'parlours' the PS 220E looks nice too. Recently tried out the larger new Paramounts and didn't like tonally but very pretty.

I've been taking my recently acquired Vintage V300MH (£220 and approx. 00 size I think - same'ish as a classical) outside to play on a bench when the weather's good. Not something I've done much before. OM size and definitely dreads are a bit cumbersome on my bench. Nice to just take it outside with a stand and doodle. No complaints as yet - although the neighbours dog barks a bit! :-)

(Martin's new parlour for 2022, the 012-28 Modern Deluxe is $4,399 by the way (just thought I'd mention that). Would we have more fun with that BillDL? Doubt it).

BillDL · June 2022

@DavidR ;; Several Summers back when I had more time on my hands and we had a nice dry warm spell I felt the notion to lie out in the shade on a recliner and play my guitar. As you say, larger guitars are cumbersome and any seat or recliner with arms forces you to hold a large guitar in an awkward way. I'm thinking about building a wee Summer house this year to sit out in on a warm day. One just large enough for a comfortable soft chair will do me.

I cannot ever imagine having a guitar that costs more than most of my cars were worth over the last 20 years, especially a more fragile acoustic. I would just see it as a liability and I don't think I would enjoy playing it for fear of bumping or scratching it.

I've now had a chance to play the guitar for several hours. The neck didn't and still doesn't feel particularly shallow in profile, however when I went to put on my capo I realised that it is about the same as some of my electric guitars in that the single-handed capo with thumb-wheel only just frets the strings when fully screwed down. On my other fuller bodied acoustics I still have plenty of thumb-wheel thread left when the capo is clamped down anywhere up to about the 7th fret. Given that this parlour sized guitar has a neck that hardly tapers at all, the capo needs to be tightened in fully right up to around the 9th fret.

This shallower neck profile might not be comfortable for some people.

bertie · June 2022

thermionic said:

I like the idea of a smaller bodied acoustic for basically pocket money… but does it really weigh 3.57kg?

its the stash taped up under the soundboard

BillDL · June 2022

Damn. I accidentally left it at work this morning. I have an all laminate dreadnaught minus all hardware while I do it up. My guess is that the Fender parlour guitar probably weighs roughly the same. It seems to be somewhere in the region of 1.5kg according to my bathroom scales. I would hazard a guess that the 3.57kg weight given by Fender in the specifications will be the total weight of the guitar inside its two cardboard boxes as delivered from the factory. Nope, no stash of any kind, unfortunately.

bertie · June 2022

oh FWIW

and Ive weighed my TW73..............................1900gms ish

my Furch OM was 2000gms and my Brook Tamar (small jumbo/large OM) 1750 gms !!

so the "biggest" is also the lightest !!

*using some cooking digi-scales

BillDL · June 2022

Would that be the digi-scales you use to prepare the stashes to conceal inside guitars?

bertie · June 2022

BillDL said:

Would that be the digi-scales you use to prepare the stashes to conceal inside guitars?

no I use bathroom scales for a job that big

Mellish · June 2022

Nah @bertie would need a weighbridge for what *he's* got stashed away

bertie · June 2022

LOL - truth of the matter is, Ive never smoked, so only smoked it once, nearly killed me - now, ive had a few cups of char and the occasional brownie / cookie - but not since the 80s , Id rather get pissed.

Mellish · June 2022

^ don't blame you mate

BillDL · June 2022

It's about 18 years since I last had a joint. I've never actually bought any weed or hash myself nor kept a small stash for my own consumption (other than when I was a teenager). I've always just had a toke if somebody else has rolled one. I would either sit in a corner jabbering like a money in a tree (say that in an Alabama accent slowly) and grinning widely, or else I would suddenly take a "whitey" and puke up. The problem is there was no way of knowing which result it would be as I lit up or took a puff as it was passed around. I'm sure I can recall being able to play like Satriani once, albeit in slow motion.

Jez6345789 · June 2022

Yeah the love for small guitars seems to have come back in the last 5 years and I suppose that's manufacturers catching up with the Ed Sheeran thing but also I think people who were perhaps locked into the idea of an acoustic guitar is a dreadnaught size have now heard the benefits of the smaller bodies especially for recording or in the mix or just the sheer pleasure on the sofa.

One tip I picked up a few years ago was to try dropping standard tuning down a full step. It certainly brought the Jim Dandy to life as a blues machine lot more growl and bottom-end sounds totally wimpy in standard. I have tried with others and some guitars it suits, others it does not.

This is the golden age of acoustic guitars Harley Benton does have a few tempting parlors but in the sub £200 quid point you have some nice guitars but if you like cheap bling this one stood out to me.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_clf_200_wn.htm

enjoy

Tannin · June 2022

Great write up @BillDL, I enjoyed reading it and learned something.

I've never owned a parlour and barely even even played one. Obviously, I should do something about that.

(Although I do have one fairly small guitar manufacturer-billed as a "grand auditorium" which is really an OM, but for some reason I can't put my finger on it always feels smaller than any of the others. I measured it just now and it isn't: Anyway, it is a rather quiet guitar with lovely tone: i I guess it's my "quasi-parlour". It's certainly my go-to instrument for a little quiet playing late at night.)

Sassafras said:

A bonus with these little things is that women rarely object to them "cluttering up the place".
They see them more as decorations.

So I can buy a few? Three or four, perhaps?

BillDL · June 2022

@Tannin ; I have a Sigma "OM" sized and shaped guitar (OMTC-1STE-SB+) that is my preferred one for quieter playing, especially fingerpicking. It's not a whole lot smaller than a dreadnaught, but it feels smaller than it is and is very comfortable to play seated or even laying back. This new parlour guitar brings in a whole new feeling of portability though.

guitarjack66 · June 2022

BillDL said:

@Tannin ; I have a Sigma "OM" sized and shaped guitar (OMTC-1STE-SB+) that is my preferred one for quieter playing, especially fingerpicking. It's not a whole lot smaller than a dreadnaught, but it feels smaller than it is and is very comfortable to play seated or even laying back. This new parlour guitar brings in a whole new feeling of portability though.

I have a Sigma GA and its also only a little bit narrower than a dreadnought but still feels too big for my comfort level. Its sound acoustically is pretty dead in all honesty but plugged in it sounds pretty decent. I might change the strings and see what happens.

richman6100 · June 2022

BillDL said:

Fender CP-60S parlour guitar in sunburst - New for £158.

Seeing a Fret King parlour guitar selling in the classifieds here a few days ago and reading the thread seeking suggestions for a small bodied guitar to take away in a campervan rekindled my curiosity about parlour guitars. I didn't want to spend a lot and for once I didn't even look to see if Thomann have a Harley Benton parlour guitar! I have worked on a few sub-£250 Fender acoustics for other people and I was quite impressed by the CD-60S (dreadnaught solid soundboard and laminated back and sides), the CC-60S (same in "concert" size), and the CF-60CE (all laminate "concert" shape with piezo). They were well made and, despite having laminated woods in their construction, sounded nice and were very comfortable. The CP-60S is just the CD/CC-60S in the parlour sized body.

The specifications are (some corrected from old or wrong spec on the Fender website):
Body back and Sides: Laminated Mahogany with Scalloped X bracing, fine multi-ply b-w-b-w binding on top edge, and black binding on back edge.
Soundboard: Solid Spruce with pearloid rosette and narrow multiply black/white inlay.
Neck: Mahogany with walnut fretboard, black binding, and dual-action truss rod, joins body at 14th fret. Long scarfe joint from 2nd fret to half way in 1st fret space. Small volute at headstock/neck.
Scale Length: 24.75" (629 mm)
Fretboard: 12" (305 mm), 20 vintage style frets, bone or bone-like nut 1.69" (43 mm), and small 3mm pearloid dot inlays and small white side dots.
Bridge: Walnut with bone or bone-like compensated saddle.
Tuning Machines: Open frame 2-screw tuners with chrome spade buttons and push-in post bushings.
Strap Buttons: Chrome larger than normal heads with top one being on the upper bout an inch from the heel and an inch down from the soundboard.
Lacquer Finish: Gloss urethane all over with 3-tone sunburst top.
Dimensions: 43.4" length x 18.2" lower bout width x 6" body depth (1,102.36 x 462.28 x 152.4 mm).
Weight: 3.57 Kg.
Strings: Factory fitted with Fender Dura-Tone Coated 80/20 Bronze (0.012 to 0.052 gauge).
The specifications say that it is the "Fender 'Easy-to-Play' fretboard with rolled edges". While the fretboard edges aren't really sharp, it doesn't have proper "rolled" edges like the CD and CC-60S guitars I've played that had unbound fretboards. Perhaps on a previous version the fretboard was unbound and rolled. I've never seen a guitar with a bound fretboard and rolled edges because I don't think it would be easy to get a consistent rolling of the edges on plastic binding.

I really just wanted a nice small guitar to cart around places easily or lie on the couch and play rather than searching for a specific tone like some old drifting blues troubadour sitting on a lobster pot in the Mississippi Delta, or like Woody Guthrie in a dusty boxcar behind a loco huffing and kachunking its way across America. I expected that it would sound a bit "boxier" and less bassy than a larger bodied guitar though. This isn't truly a parlour sized and shaped guitars as per old 1800s guitars, but it's probably small enough to qualify.

A sunburst finish on an acoustic guitar is as polarising as Marmite. I normally prefer a plain spruce top or a dark brown sunburst, but the bright sunburst on this guitar is very well executed and I liked it because it reminds me of the first guitar I had around the age of 8 - a "Hofnerish" (probably East German or Czechoslovakian) with a beautiful gloss sunburst.

Out of the box, straight from Indonesia, it was almost in tune with itself but about a full tone down. The neck relief is absolutely perfect as are the depths of the nut slots. The ONLY setup this will need, other than smoothing off the fret ends a tiny bit, will be filing a sliver off the bottom of the saddle or swapping it for a bone one that I have among my spare parts. The neck is perfectly playable without any discomfort from the fret ends, but I like them really smooth.

The tuners are a bit stiff to turn because the cogs and worms shafts don't appear to have any lubrication, but they don't have any wobble or slop and a drop of oil or a dab of chapstick on the mechanisms when i change strings will sort that. I'm not considering changing them for now.

The walnut fretboard is fairly smooth but a bit dry and needs oiling, as does the bridge. A couple of the frets show the tiniest bit of height disparity using a fret rocker where this would only matter on an electric guitar with very low action. It will not affect the fretting on an acoustic guitar with a normal relief and action. I would say that the fretwork has been well executed. the narrow vintage frets will take a bit of getting used to as they are skinnier than on most of my other acoustics.

I've ad a look inside with a mirror and the construction is really good for a guitar of this price. There are very few glue runs (they are pretty small anyway), the braces are nicely shaped and finished, and the bridge plate looks adequate. The binding, neck dots, and inlaid rosette have all been well done, and the lacquer finish is flawless.

I was quite surprised by the sound projection. The soundhole is 10cm / 4" in diameter, so it's no different from most acoustic guitars. It is a little bit lacking in bass reponse, but I am surprised by how much there is for a body this size. It's actually quite articulate, albeit a little bit "punchy" and direct, when fingerpicked around th middle of the soundhole, and it gives a nice twangy banjo-esque zing when finger or plectrum picked behind the soundhole. It's hard to describe the overall sound when compared with a "concert" or dreadnaught sized guitar because I have almost zero experience playing a parlour guitar, but I would say that it is "tighter" and more "direct". There is a slight boxiness, but it is definitely not an unpleasant boxy sound like a thick plywood beginner's guitar. I'm sure the difference in tone and general feel will be like a breath of fresh air and perhaps I might consider a more expensive model in the future.

A small guitar like this is fun to play and is a lot more portable than even a smaller bodied "concert" sized one, however I will need to try and find a lightweight case that fits more snugly than the classical gig bag I currently have it in. I would urge anybody who is curious about a parlour guitar to at least play one in a store. You might be pleasantly surprised. Despite being an affordable guitar I think this one is pretty good value for what it is, and has a perfectly acceptable tone for most people that are looking for a portable guitar or one that is comfortable to play lying back on the couch.

What an excellent write up. HNGD. :-) I love my Auden Marlow parlour, it's my most played acoustic and surprisingly big-sounding for a small guitar.

Pjon · June 2022

Jez6345789 said:

One tip I picked up a few years ago was to try dropping standard tuning down a full step. It certainly brought the Jim Dandy to life as a blues machine lot more growl and bottom-end sounds totally wimpy in standard. I have tried with others and some guitars it suits, others it does not.

My Jim Dandy is pretty much always in Open D or G. I was playing some really basic bluesy stuff the other night and my wife said she prefers the sound of it to my Cort solid wood. She likes the twanginess, she said.

BillDL · July 2022

I just thought I would update this thread. The pickguard / scratchplate on this new Fender CPS-60S 14th fret parlour guitar was a little bit sharp around the edges. I carefully peeled it off and eventually managed to rub the glue into rolls with my thumb (sore thumb now) and pull it off, then remove the hazy sticky residue with Zippo lighter fluid. It cleaned off with no trace that there had ever been a bit of sharp-edged plastic stuck to it.

This has immediately improved the tone of the guitar. It sounds a bit fuller and slightly less boxy. I suppose on a smaller bodied guitar where every bit of the soundboard is needed, dampening a significant portion of it with plasticky plastic does rob enough of the vibration to be noticeable.

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NGD - Parlour Guitar

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