£1000 Gems

Tannin · March 2022

Some brands are famous for holding their value. Martin is a stand-out: you see three-year-old second-hand Martins being advertised for 90% of the new price, and very likely selling close to that mark. A 10-year-old Martin in only decent shape still sells for a lot of money. Gibsons too - you won't pick up a J-45 or an SJ-200 cheap unless it's broken, and enen then you'll stil pay overs. So if you are buying with an eye to selling one day, those brands make some sense - until you remember that you are paying overs for the name in the first place and you could probably buy more guitar for less money by looking at some other brands.

But what about the reverse?

Suppose you just want to buy the best guitar you can get for £1000 or £1500

We saw in this thread - https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/224678/lakewood-m32cp - that Lakewood guitars don't sell for much second-hand (and these are very fine instruments of first-rate quality). Another thread a month or so back bemoaned the resale price of Larrivees - now there is another quality make. Over here in Oz I have been eying a beautiful Breedlove guitar at one of my favourite retailers on offer at a less than I reckon it's worth, and not getting any buyers. Another example: I paid $3000 for my (then) 9-month-old Mineur, a lovely single-luthier guitar it would have cost me close to $6000 to order new.

So let's make a list: Which top-quality guitars tend to be second-hand bargains? I'll start:

* Any used single-luthier guitar (except for a handful of very famous makers). THese tend to be the best bargains of all.
* Lakewood
* Larivee
* .........

over to you....

ElectricXII · March 2022

My new-to-me used Gibson J-35 cost a grand. The same woods and build quality as a J-45 for much less cash.

Tannin · March 2022

^ And (if I may say so) much better looking.

Strangefan · March 2022

Dowina ftw.

CavemanGrogg · March 2022

Yamaha, if you avoid the online hype about ''vintage'' acoustic Yamaha guitars and buy brand new, £1k will get you an extremely good all solid wood steel string acoustic or classical guitar that will seriously give the more saught after brands stuff costing 5 times the amount and more a tough challenge for the money.

Ortega, not their sub £1k range, but their private reserve stuff

RickLucas · March 2022

Blueridge

tsj93 · March 2022

I've got a Ramirez in the classifieds I may be tempted to move on for not much change after a grand

Tannin · March 2022

Cheers Lads. I will try the question again, making it clearer this time.

Which guitars are SECOND-HAND bargains? Or, putting it the other way about, which guitars are high-quality instruments but have poor resale value?

CavemanGrogg · March 2022

Breadlove is another, brand new costs a lot, second hand can be had for a bargin, though their quality has taken a huge dive over the last several years

Tannin · March 2022

Is that so? Sad to hear, @CavemanGrogg I know they have started offshore manufacturing somewhere cheap, but also still make higher-end guitars in Oregon. Is it the Chinese ones that are sub-par? Or has their in-house standard slipped?

(I was about to post a link to that Breedlove I mentioned earlier in the thread (which would be old enough to come before the quality slip you mention) but it seems to have sold at last. (Either that or the owner got bored waiting and took it off consignment.)

CavemanGrogg · March 2022

Tannin said:

Is that so? Sad to hear, @CavemanGrogg I know they have started offshore manufacturing somewhere cheap, but also still make higher-end guitars in Oregon. Is it the Chinese ones that are sub-par? Or has their in-house standard slipped?

(I was about to post a link to that Breedlove I mentioned earlier in the thread (which would be old enough to come before the quality slip you mention) but it seems to have sold at last. (Either that or the owner got bored waiting and took it off consignment.)

Both, once they started the production of their cheaper made in China line, their made in Oregon ones - their mass produced line, quality really took a dive, the proper custom ones that they do are still extremely good quality, but like all custom and made to order guitars, the person who buys it brand new pays a fortune for it, and then loses a fortune selling it on the second hand market. It really is a shame, about 10 maybe 12 years ago I bought a Premier Concert from Breedlove - almost no dealers in the UK then, fantastic acoustic, I really love the bridge, one of the best if not the best bridge I've used on a steel string acoustic. The new ones, quite a big difference, tested a bunch of them when I bought the Hanaka, and I was dissapointed, however that was looking at brand new ones selling for brand new prices, they are still good quality guitars, just not as good quality as they used to and can make them, but since they don't hold their value, they're very good value second hand, especially their custom ones, but not so easy to find second hand ones as they are not a brand with an established history like Gibson, Martin and so forth, and they are a young company, just over 30 years old I think.

enjo · March 2022

Eastman (although ironically for this thread I just sold mine to buy a Martin).
I paid £500 for a new E1-OM, just sold it for £375 - that is stonking value for money IMO, all solid woods, played really well and sounded fantastic.

crunchman · March 2022

Furch - they are good value new, so tend to be good value second hand as well.

I don't get the love for Larivee and Lakewood. The ones I've played have been ok, but nothing to write home about.

lincolnblue · March 2022

CavemanGrogg said:

Breadlove is another, brand new costs a lot, second hand can be had for a bargin, though their quality has taken a huge dive over the last several years

I didn't know that about their quality. I have one (admittedly from their Atlas range) from 2004 and it's a stunning instrument. Don't see enough of them over in UK

Gassage · March 2022

£500 and get a Tak GC93.

Incredible value.

CoolCat · March 2022

Tanglewood

BigPaulie · March 2022

I'm not sure there are any used bargains at the moment.

Prices are still at stupid levels even though stock levels of new instruments are improving.

artiebear · March 2022

Really hard to be definitive. In perfect used market, a Larrivee ( lovely guitars, easily up with Martin or Taylor, assuming that is your soundscape ) .
Anything European without the daft kudos attached.

CMW335 · March 2022

1990 Gibson J-30 exact same spec as the Hummingbird bar the finish and fancy guard for not much more than a grand

Mellish · March 2022

@CMW335 ; - now that is a beauty. If you want to sell at some point, give us a shout

bertie · March 2022

CoolCat said:

Tanglewood

aiye - picked up my all solid parlor for less than £275(including fees) at auction

Gassage said:

£500 and get a Tak GC93.

Incredible value.

never played a Tak that hasnt needed to be strummed like popye with a pick like a paving slab to get any response out of it - that was quite a while ago mind you

guitargeek62 · March 2022

enjo said:

Eastman (although ironically for this thread I just sold mine to buy a Martin).
I paid £500 for a new E1-OM, just sold it for £375 - that is stonking value for money IMO, all solid woods, played really well and sounded fantastic.

+1 - I grabbed my E10SS (J45 type) a couple of years back for £1040 in a sale, it's probably the most-played guitar I've ever owned! Given that you can get these models for <£1,000 secondhand if you're patient, I think they belong in this thread for sure

TimmyO · March 2022

bertie said:

CoolCat said:

Tanglewood

aiye - picked up my all solid parlor for less than £275(including fees) at auction

Gassage said:

£500 and get a Tak GC93.

Incredible value.

never played a Tak that hasnt needed to be strummed like popye with a pick like a paving slab to get any response out of it - that was quite a while ago mind you

oddly my strong recollections are the opposite- really responsive - but I think the couple I've played were Cedar topped to be fair

Tannin · August 2022

Well, there is now a Larivee in the family.

Not mine, my other brother (not the usual brother I mention now and then, the other one) has owned a very nice CBS 12-string for almost 50 years. Weird branding, this was when CBS owned Fender but sold this guitar (for some unknown reason) under the CBS brand. It is in fact a Tokai, made in Japan during the MIJ golden era.

But after all these years he has finally got the yen for a 6-string. His budget, $1000 to $2500 AUD (About £600 to £1500). He likes dreadnoughts, refuses to buy anything with dodgy timber provenance (i.e., nothing from China or Indonesia), doesn't like cutaways, nor if possible electronics. He always uses Thomastic flatwounds and plays with bare fingers, so I said he'd be wise to go for something in a brighter timber (e.g., rosewood, Blackwood, Rock Maple) rather than a warm or middley timber (mahogany, walnut, Queensland Maple). A spruce or spruce-like top is a given.

He doesn't want to have to drive into the centre of bloody Melbourne where most of the good shops are. In the end, after considerable thought, I told him to drive in anyway, and go to the Acoustic Centre in South Melbourne, probably Australia's best acoustic guitar ship. (I believe there is also a pretty good one somewhere in Sydney.) They have a good range, all good stuff no crap, and the staff are laid-back and helpful. Really decent people to deal with. (I bought my WA May there recently.)

I also provided him with a short list of guitars they had in stock that I though might be worth his time to look at.

* Maton S60, $1229 (£721). Sitka Spruce and Queensland Maple. FOR: The cheapest Maton made, all solid, no shortcuts. Against: not the ideal back and sides timber.
* Yamaha LL-16 $1599 (£938) Spruce and rosewood. Made in China but it's Yamaha so we can probably accept that. Would prefer not to have the Transacoustic gimmicks. Would need to be compelling sound quality to make up for the bloody sunburst. But worth trying.
* Maton SRS-60C $1749 (£1026). Lovely guitars, but Queensland Maple back not really ideal for Other Brother's style. Plus it has a cutaway. And what would we really gain as compared with the much cheaper but very similar S60? Play it and find out.
* Taylor GTe Urban Ash $2000 (£1173) Sitka Spruce and ash. Excellent environmental credentials, remarkably reasonable price for an American guitar, and unless I miss my guess, Brother Other would like the Taylor sound. An odd shape something like an oversized 808 or a rounded-off small dreadnought, but not unattractive. Certainly worth a look.
* Maton SRS-70C $2099 (£1231) Sitka Spruce and Blackwood. Exactly the same as an SRS-60 but in Blackwood. Would be close to the top of my list.
* Taylor American Dream $2299 (£348) Sitka Spruce and Ovankol. Are Taylor dreadnoughts a bit less cloying-sweet than their concert-shaped guitars? I've never tried one, but should. Anyway, I told Brother Other to look at this one too.
* Larivee D-40R (used, 2019) $2499 (£1467) Sitka Spruce and Indian Rosewood dreadnought. The only used guitar on my short list, and also the most expensive one, right at the top of Brother Other's budget range. But all things considered, and subject of course to playing all 7, this would be the one I'd lean toward.

Anyway, I told Brother Other all this over the phone (he lives nearly 300 kilometres from here, and you have to go right through bloody Melbourne - yuk!) and suggested he devote a day to going and and trying them out.

Knock me down with a feather - he's been dithering around for months thinking about a new guitar, and this morning he rang them up and - bang! - ordered the Larivee over the phone.

Good for you Brother Other! I will look forward to visiting some time soon and trying the Larry out.

TheMadMick · August 2022

I know I keep pushing it but I've a Yamaha AC3R at well under £1k although the street price seems more like £1k new. If you can get to Merseyside, it must be worth a strum or two.

DavidR · August 2022

Melbourne to Liverpool is 10,578 miles MadMick.

Love the idea though. Is there anything a guitarrista will not do!!

:-) :-) :-)

On thread, has to be Martin doesn't it in current market. Problem is, for it to hold its price, you have to buy it to begin with. But yes, if I was going to buy a second hand acoustic for £1K it would be a Martin. £1K on a new guitar would defo not be a Martin.

Tannin · August 2022

DavidR said:

Melbourne to Liverpool is 10,578 miles MadMick.

Love the idea though. Is there anything a guitarrista will not do!!

: ) Add another 800 kilometres 'coz I live that far south of Melbourne. (But staying in Ballarat this week, 120k west of Melbourne. Home on Sunday, assuming the ferry doesn't sink.)

I've been known to drive to Sydney (1500k) for a camera, and would do the same for a guitar. Brisbane or Adelaide, no worries. Perth (4200k from home) .... maybe not. As for getting to Mersyside, well I'll be there first thing Sunday morning when the ferry docks, and home five hours after that. :Meet you there @TheMadMick? ;

https://goo.gl/maps/GBg8TNRtaV8Pa8Nk8

TheMadMick · August 2022

^^^ Never knew there was a Devonport in Tasmania (if I read the map correctly). Nothing to go with Acoustics but interesting none the less).

Tannin · August 2022

Australia is full of borrowed place names, @TheMadMick Devonport, at least two different Perths, Liverpool is a suburb of Sydney, there are mountain ranges called Grampians, Alps, Pyrenees; rivers called Mersey, Derwent, two different Nives.

As for the plants and wildlife, idiot Europeans (mostly English) in the 18th and 19th century lumbered us with insanities like Mountain Ash (a huge gum tree), Queensland Maple (a Flindersia, vaguely related to lemons), and Silky Oak (a Grevilia, about as closely related to the oaks as you are to a bandicoot). Not to mention "Tasmanian oak" (any of about 5 different eucalypts) and she-oak (a casuarina, distantly related to the birch, beech nothofagus, and walnut families). Don't get me started on the birds.

GoFish · August 2022

I hear that this al started when James Kirk landed in Botany Bay in winter and thought it was summer, just like good ol' Blighty, but that sounds too good to be true.

bertie · August 2022

no idea, but Ive got a £273 one.................all solid, maple binding - sounds fucking ace.

and FWIW - I used to go to the nuc submarine base in Devonport, not to mention the Devonport end at Home Park

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£1000 Gems

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