Lakewood M32CP

Shadow · March 2022

Just spotted one of these being sold secondhand in a localish music shop for £1000. It's a 2017 model and looks in mint condition. As they retail for up to £2500 this seems a steal but I don't know anything about the brand and it appears that resale values aren't good. Anyone know if this is a good deal.

It's very nice to play, nice warmth and balance across the mids and highs, but the bass is very soft, quite muted. It appears to be strung with some kind of nickel strings, the wound strings are silver. Would nickel strings (if that's what they are) have the effect of muting the bass on a spruce/rosewood guitar?

bertie · March 2022

all I know is they're German and always had a good rep, and "some" people confuse them with Tanglewood !!!

not sure why the resale value is not good

TheMadMick · March 2022

The strings might be Monel. They have a "silver" finish and, I think, a lovely sound. Not a reason why the bass is "muted".

It would have come with Elixir PB 12 - 53. However, remember it's NOT a dread but a concert size. I would imagine the bass would be tight but not muted. It might have a muted bass because it's been sitting quite a while? I had a similar experience with my Larry (review to follow when it settles down).

If the web specs are right it should be a very nice guitar. I would think working with different strings might give you a sound you'd really like.

GTC · March 2022

They are very nice guitars, comparable with the better builders. I believe Project Music in Exeter are a dealer / middleman for their custom models. They have this model in stock new at £2490.

I'm not sure about the used values but I kicked myself for not going for a 10-yr old cedar / mahogany lefty a few years ago - in excellent condition and with hardshell case for under £500.

They had an excellent guitar configurator on their website - which I shamefully used for a pictorial representation when describing to Brook what I wanted.

Mellish · March 2022

Ask the store if they'll restring with your favourite strings, then pop along and try it. You'll have some idea what to expect from the guitar. Good luck

Aornic · March 2022

I used to have one. It's really nice and has a lot of snap for finger picking. However, as a primarily electric player I couldn't justify keeping it around. My only acoustic now is a Taylor Academy 12 - suits my strumming needs but is a clear downgrade from the Lakewood!

Also I bought it used for 1900 so 1000 sounds like a great deal.

Strangefan · March 2022

I had one, I still regret selling it

maltingsaudio · March 2022

Excellant value for money at that price, great guitars, Martin Seeliger is a great luthier. Lakewood suffer from being a smallish manufacturer so brand awareness isn’t very high but the quality is.
Ritchie Blackmore is on their list of players!
The Bass muting you mention could just be a duff string

Tannin · March 2022

Lakewood is a class act. Beautifully made guitars.

malcolmkindness · March 2022

I used to own one, as others have said. A very nice guitar but it's true their second hand value is poor. I would try phosphor bronze strings on it.
£1000 seems like a good price, I think I got €1500 for mine but it took a while to sell.

artiebear · March 2022

That's a lot of guitar for £1K !. I have owned an A32 since1996. I wouldn't part with it. Beautifully made, plays well and sounds fantastic. The quality of Lakewood is right up there with other small workshop builders. As far as brand awareness, they have always got lost amongst the plethora of USA guitars, so hankered after here in the UK.

Shadow · March 2022

Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated. I didn't realise the brand was so well thought of.

It turns out that the shop is selling the guitar on behalf of someone, maybe why they have bothered to put new strings on. If the guitar is still there the next time I'm in the area it's probably worth me donating a set of EJ16s to get a better idea of how it sounds.

Without wanting to reopen the old nut width debate, it seems this model has a 44mm nut as opposed to the standard for the model of 46mm. I play exclusively fingerstyle and prefer 45mm over 43, but this seemed plenty spacious enough for me.

bertie · March 2022

for the hard of understanding, I wonder why are they called "16s" then they're 12s

maltingsaudio · March 2022

bertie said:

for the hard of understanding, I wonder why are they called "16s" then they're 12s

4 louder ?

Dave_Mc · March 2022

I've never tried Lakewoods, but regarding the silver strings- I've tried a few Pyramid sets off Thomann which had silver-looking strings. The silk and steel ones looked silver (and they're a bit softer-sounding, so I wonder if the ones you tried might be something like that? I'd have said a bit softer on the treble, though, than the bass like you described) and they also have silver-plated ones, too. (There may well be a bunch of other options too, I'm more of an electric player!)

Tannin · March 2022

The Germans have a bit of a thing about exotic string materials and methods. As noted, Pyramid has actual silver coated strings (as well as the usual silk and steel and nickel alloy variants) and they also do those weird "hand polished" round wounds, which are conceptually similar to D'Addario's Flat Tops (though much nicer to play). And then you've got Thomastic, the undisputed King of weird strings, not to mention Optima who, among many other oddities, manufacture a set of strings coated in 24 carat gold. Yes, they are quite expensive. Optima claim endorsements from a pair of pretty fair guitarists in Frank Zappa and Brian May (plus others I haven't heard of) and say that the weight of the gold coating produces a superior tone. Maybe it does. One day I'll find out. I have a set here, purchased at vast expense, and eventually I will feel brave enough to open the packet and put them on a guitar.

Shadow · March 2022

I think I'll stick with the EJ16s rather than any gold-plated offering

Mellish · March 2022

I recall Country Gold. I may even have bought some. I don't recall who turned them out... I've checked my notes and I *did* buy some but no comments or rating.
I want to say Optima brand but may be wildly wrong

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Dave_Mc · March 2022

Tannin said:

The Germans have a bit of a thing about exotic string materials and methods. As noted, Pyramid has actual silver coated strings (as well as the usual silk and steel and nickel alloy variants) and they also do those weird "hand polished" round wounds, which are conceptually similar to D'Addario's Flat Tops (though much nicer to play). And then you've got Thomastic, the undisputed King of weird strings, not to mention Optima who, among many other oddities, manufacture a set of strings coated in 24 carat gold. Yes, they are quite expensive. Optima claim endorsements from a pair of pretty fair guitarists in Frank Zappa and Brian May (plus others I haven't heard of) and say that the weight of the gold coating produces a superior tone. Maybe it does. One day I'll find out. I have a set here, purchased at vast expense, and eventually I will feel brave enough to open the packet and put them on a guitar.

LOL

Which ones are the "hand polished" round wounds?

They may be a bit weird but those Pyramids I mentioned are pretty nice, and pretty decent value on Thomann...

Tannin · March 2022

Cheers @Dave_Mc ;

Pyramid Western Folk: https://www.stringsbymail.com/pyramid-acoustic-guitar-strings-western-folk-round-core-light-12-54-6960.html $13.95 (US) at Strings by Mail

Pyramid Western Folk (hand-polished) https://www.stringsbymail.com/pyramid-acoustic-guitar-strings-hand-polished-light-12-54-18214.html $16.99 (US) at the same place.

Not only are the names confusing, ever the packets are identical except for a little "hand-polished" sticker added to the latter.

The silver ones might be these: https://www.stringsbymail.com/pyramid-307-silver-plated-acoustic-guitar-strings-12-52-6964.html I haven't tried them yet. But I will!

Thomann don't offer shipping to my neck of the woods. Probably I could email then - after all, all they have to do with a set of strings is take it to the same post office they take all their other stuff to - but I can't be bothered, I just order from companies who are more interested in my business. Maybe one day if there is something I can't get anywhere else.

bertie · March 2022

Ive got about 7 or 8 packs of Pyramids I found up in the loft.................... all leccy 10s tho

artiebear · March 2022

A 1994 Lakewood M18 ( spruce/ovangkol )has just popped up on the GuitarGuitar website. Looks to be in lovely condition and priced at £899. Those early Lakewoods are lovely, having a satin, quite Lowdenesque, finish rather than gloss. I remember the shop where I got my A32 at around that time, had an M18 in as well. I was a great sounding guitar, but I went for the 12 fret, wider fingerboard option. Could be a nice guitar for someone.

Dave_Mc · March 2022

Tannin said:

Cheers @Dave_Mc ;;

Pyramid Western Folk: https://www.stringsbymail.com/pyramid-acoustic-guitar-strings-western-folk-round-core-light-12-54-6960.html $13.95 (US) at Strings by Mail

Pyramid Western Folk (hand-polished) https://www.stringsbymail.com/pyramid-acoustic-guitar-strings-hand-polished-light-12-54-18214.html $16.99 (US) at the same place.

Not only are the names confusing, ever the packets are identical except for a little "hand-polished" sticker added to the latter.

The silver ones might be these: https://www.stringsbymail.com/pyramid-307-silver-plated-acoustic-guitar-strings-12-52-6964.html I haven't tried them yet. But I will!

Thomann don't offer shipping to my neck of the woods. Probably I could email then - after all, all they have to do with a set of strings is take it to the same post office they take all their other stuff to - but I can't be bothered, I just order from companies who are more interested in my business. Maybe one day if there is something I can't get anywhere else.

Thanks!

Yeah Pyramid seem to do that with quite a few strings (very similar packaging for different sets), it's sometimes quite hard to see what the difference is!

I think those silver ones you listed are the same as the ones I've tried, except for the gauge. It's a pity Thomann doesn't ship to you, they have really good prices on some of the Pyramid strings...

Benm39 · March 2022

Ulli Bögershausen has a signature Lakewood I think, sounds plenty nice enough to my mind...

tomajoha · March 2022

I had an M14CP, as I remember it had very build quality but the neck profile was a bit wide/flat/thin and it was a very modern sounding instrument, if you like those attributes I'm sure you will be pleased

Shadow · March 2022

tomajoha said:

I had an M14CP, as I remember it had very build quality but the neck profile was a bit wide/flat/thin and it was a very modern sounding instrument, if you like those attributes I'm sure you will be pleased

Thanks for your reply. The one I'm looking at has a 44mm nut rather than the standard 46mm so may not be as yours. I'm looking forward to being able hearing it with decent strings.

tomajoha · March 2022

Shadow said:

tomajoha said:

I had an M14CP, as I remember it had very build quality but the neck profile was a bit wide/flat/thin and it was a very modern sounding instrument, if you like those attributes I'm sure you will be pleased

Thanks for your reply. The one I'm looking at has a 44mm nut rather than the standard 46mm so may not be as yours. I'm looking forward to being able hearing it with decent strings.

I think that would have made the difference for me - the nut width just felt too wide on this, approaching classical width...

Shadow · April 2022

Well I spoke to the owner last week and, as @TheMadMick suggested earlier in the thread, the strings are Monels. I've never used them myself but a quick Google shows that they might soften the sound which was maybe what I heard in the somewhat muted bass. The guitar has been restrung with EJ16s and I'm going up tomorrow to give it another test drive.

TheMadMick · April 2022

What was the outcome of restringing it?

Shadow · April 2022

TheMadMick said:

What was the outcome of restringing it?

It has a much better balance across the strings, very sweet tone. I decided to buy it, the idea being to compare it to my Sitka/rosewood Eastman E8OM-TC and keep the one I prefer. I was expecting to prefer the Lakewood, but although it sounds lovely for low tempo fingerstyle pieces, it seems to struggle for volume on anything at a higher tempo. The Eastman is much better in that respect, fuller, louder tone. I might try some different strings (any suggestions?) but at the moment I think I'll be moving the Lakewood on. For the price I paid I don't think I'll have any trouble getting my money back.

Just goes to show that price isn't everything. The Eastman retails at half the price of the Lakewood.

TheMadMick · April 2022

Shadow said:

TheMadMick said:

What was the outcome of restringing it?

It has a much better balance across the strings, very sweet tone. I decided to buy it, the idea being to compare it to my Sitka/rosewood Eastman E8OM-TC and keep the one I prefer. I was expecting to prefer the Lakewood, but although it sounds lovely for low tempo fingerstyle pieces, it seems to struggle for volume on anything at a higher tempo. The Eastman is much better in that respect, fuller, louder tone. I might try some different strings (any suggestions?) but at the moment I think I'll be moving the Lakewood on. For the price I paid I don't think I'll have any trouble getting my money back.

Just goes to show that price isn't everything. The Eastman retails at half the price of the Lakewood.

You might like to get someone else to listen to it as you play. What we hear is often not what an observer hears.

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Lakewood M32CP

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