Sorted, thanks... Looper for acoustic that doesn't amplify the guitar in the room?

TheBigDipper · March 2022

Here's an odd little puzzle that someone might be able to help me with.

I'm mucking about with an acoustic guitar and a looper (TC Ditto+). It's at home, so I'm not looking to amplify the guitar, but I do want to hear the live loops I've made and am playing over. Which requires some form of amplification. So, what I'm looking for is a way of playing the guitar in the room, but not to amplify it as I play, but to record the part I'm playing as a loop. Then, as I'm listening to that layer, to record a second part without amplifying the guitar but I do want to hear the loop underneath it. Then, as I'm listening to two layers, to record a third without amplifying that part but let me listen to the first two. Then, when I've got those three down, to pause recording and let me hear the three parts as I play over the top without amplifying the fourth.

It's not a problem at a venue, because the PA is loud enough for the guitar in the room to be drowned out. At home, I have problems hearing the loops over the sound of the guitar in the room plus the amplified guitar in the room. I've tried closed back headphones, but it's not very successful at shutting out the guitar.

Anyone got any ideas?

MichaelWatts · March 2022

Play and record your loop then turn down the volume on your guitar or unplug it altogether

TheBigDipper · March 2022

MichaelWatts said:

Play and record your loop then turn down the volume on your guitar or unplug it altogether

??? I can't find a volume knob that controls the volume of the vibrating top of the instrument anywhere. What am I missing?

Actually, if all I was doing was recording a single layer loop, then playing it once to record and then reverting from record to playback and muting the guitar feed would work. The unamplified guitar top would be plenty loud enough. But I'm making multiple layered loops, so I want to send the signal for layer no 2 to the looper (and therefore, the amp) to get it recorded. When I do, I can't easily hear the first loop over the sound of the guitar top in the room and the guitar pickup through the amp. Hence this post.

Ideally, a looper pedal that recorded an incoming signal without also sending it to the amplifier would be useful. I'm just not aware of any.

steamabacus · March 2022

TheBigDipper said:

Ideally, a looper pedal that recorded an incoming signal without also sending it to the amplifier would be useful. I'm just not aware of any.

I think this is too big an ask as what you require is that the looper both playback the recorded loop (with guitar input muted) and record a second loop (with the guitar input signal added.

Without tying my brain in knots, it's MAYBE possible that you could get what you're after out of one of the larger loopers where you can record several parallel synchronised loops - but you would have to be able to mute just the output of the 'track' you're recording. I'm not sure there's anything on the market with that functionality. You may be able to set up something with separate left and right channels (monitoring only the 'backing' side) and bouncing across the recorded side afterwards?

It really seems like something you would need software (Ableton Live maybe?) to achieve. Then you could playback your backing loop (monitor out active) while simultaneously recording your backing loop plus guitar input on a separate track (monitor out disabled).

Hope some of that helps, just speculating really (and software isn't really my thing).

JayGee · March 2022

Don’t most loopers have some kind of “mix” control to set the relative levels of the “loop” and “live” signals?

Setting that to 100% “wet” (or “looped”) should do the trick…

steamabacus · March 2022

Following on and chasing a half-memory about Electro Harmonix looper products ....

Have a look at the EHX 45000 looper pedal - multiple tracks (pannable left and right) and a 'mix down' function. It's a possible contender. Pricey, though.

TheBigDipper · March 2022

Well…. I've found out the Pigtronix has an aux feed output that only sends the recorded loop sounds out and not what you’re playing live (and recording). So that would do the job, but it's more looper than I was thinking of.

Not sure about the EHX looper, lots of output choices but I couldn't find one that suppressed the current input signal - unless I missed it. The manual possibly makes more sense if you have the unit in front of you.

Thanks for the input, folks.

Soupman · March 2022

What about a digital workstation? They all come with recording software. I have a Presonus which came with Studio1 DAW, you can lay a track down and set it to loop whilst you put other layers down. I just plug in a set of headphones. You can export the mix to MP3 or whatever.

steamabacus · March 2022

TheBigDipper said:

Not sure about the EHX looper, lots of output choices but I couldn't find one that suppressed the current input signal - unless I missed it. The manual possibly makes more sense if you have the unit in front of you.

I had a quick look at the manual and the dry input level slider has a pan pot above it. Panned one way it sends the right input to the right output and the left input to the left output, panned the other way it reverses this - right to left, left to right.

It was too much brainache to really think it through but I thought it may be able to do what you want utilising stereo and flipping left/right inputs/outputs between recording and playback (and bouncing down your loop to the master mix (panned hard one side) if more layers needed.

It's a possibility but I'm not sure about anything.

The EHX also needs a separate foot controller and that might make it equivalent pricewise to the Pigtronix (or even more?)

As I said before, I think what you want is a big ask for any usual looper so you'll probably have to pay for something pretty sophisticated (or go down the software route).

TheBigDipper · March 2022

steamabacus said:

TheBigDipper said:

Not sure about the EHX looper, lots of output choices but I couldn't find one that suppressed the current input signal - unless I missed it. The manual possibly makes more sense if you have the unit in front of you.

I had a quick look at the manual and the dry input level slider has a pan pot above it. Panned one way it sends the right input to the right output and the left input to the left output, panned the other way it reverses this - right to left, left to right.

It was too much brainache to really think it through but I thought it may be able to do what you want utilising stereo and flipping left/right inputs/outputs between recording and playback (and bouncing down your loop to the master mix (panned hard one side) if more layers needed.

It's a possibility but I'm not sure about anything.

The EHX also needs a separate foot controller and that might make it equivalent pricewise to the Pigtronix (or even more?)

As I said before, I think what you want is a big ask for any usual looper so you'll probably have to pay for something pretty sophisticated (or go down the software route).

You did. And you were not wrong!

steamabacus · March 2022

If you wanted to go down the software route, there is the Mobius Looper software (which is free/donations). I've no idea if it would be able to do what you want but it is a very comprehensive looper (modelled on the old Echoplex Digital Pro rack unit). It's a bit long in the tooth so I don't know if it will run on Windows 10 (it did on Win7) and. of course, you'd need some form of midi footpedal (there was a cheap Behringer one that was always recommended).

http://circularlabs.com/

-x-GF-x- · March 2022

Interesting dilemma... With no ready/cheap answer it seems. You could buy a Boomerang III:-

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/looper-with-seperate-output-for-loop.1344718/

Get the soldering iron out...

https://music-electronics-forum.com/forum/effectification/guitar-effects/25055-stereo-looper-pedals-which-ones-split-wet-dry-loop-live

Or a possible cheap and dirty workaround - I had a look at my Donner Circle Looper and it has the option to increase the volume of the looped signal. I haven't tested it, but it seems to me that with a pedal like that you could turn down the volume of the rest of your pedal chain, boost the signal of the loops, and get what you're after...

TheBigDipper · March 2022

The results of research and helpful advice from you lot is...

The Boomerang 3 has a feature where you can mute the "through" signal from the instrument you're playing so it doesn't get passed onto the amp as you listen to recorded loops. That's exactly what I was looking for. And, as per above, if you're in mono input, then the right stereo output is loop only.

The Pigtronix has an output jack for a monitor aux feed (say to your onstage drummer) that doesn't include the instrument you're playing.

So, I can scratch my itch at a price (they're both a bit expensive for my need).

Thanks again to all. I think the question for me now is how badly do I want the solution...

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Sorted, thanks... Looper for acoustic that doesn't amplify the guitar in the room?

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