NGD - Guild

Tannin · July 2021

After many, many happy months and hours looking for my next guitar true love, I snuck in for a quickie today. No, not one of the several long-desired high-end instruments I'm always struggling to choose between, just a good, practical everyday guitar to put some solid hours into.

Lately I've been playing the Cole Clark Angel a lot. I always play it a fair bit - all things considered it is my best guitar - but I don't want to hammer the poor little thing into the ground just practicing and noodling around. It's less than two years old and I can see the first signs of play wear on it. Yep, sure, they are made to be played, but the Angel would cost close to $6000 to replace and it is made from very rare timbers it would be sinful to waste. Instead, I tend to play the little Maton Dreadnought. It's a much cheaper guitar, but arguably still a bit good to hammer every day as much as I do. And the other Maton is a Messiah 808 - i.e., another one better not sacrificed to the daily grind.

Only one thing for it. Buy another guitar!

(Logic like the above is what helps me stay married.)

Now the guitars I've been looking at all year - yes, I have gone the whole of this calendar year without buying a guitar, not even one, not since December 2020! - have been fairly high end models: a custom shop Maton is top of the list at present, and I've been considering others in that broad category. One that I reluctantly rejected a few weeks ago was a late 1980s Guild GF-60 R - a truly lovely small jumbo with more top end than most jumbos and a remarkably balanced sound. Sadly, it was getting a bit close to neck reset time and if I'm spending $3500 (£1900) on a guitar, I don't want to be dropping another thousand on it sometime in the next few years.

But last night I noticed this nice little Guild advertised by my local used guitar shop. It is a 2007 CO-2, Red Spruce over mahogany and they were asking just under $1500 (about £800). That is a crazy low price for a proper made-in-America Guild. So I did my research - more on this in another post - and then drove into Hobart and tried it out.

Image: https://tannin.net.au/other/dpr/210726_162607_5D4c.jpg

Tannin · July 2021

Now the Guild CO-2 has an interesting history. Recall that Fender has the habit of buying out good acoustic guitar makers, running them into the ground, and then shutting them down or flogging off the remains to a new, more competent owner. They did it to Tacoma, to Guild, and to Ovation as well. Tacoma they shut down (which was a downright crime), the other two they eventually sold off. Both are now enjoying success under new owners.

When Fender bought out Guild, at first they shifted production from New York to Fender's electric guitar facility in Corona, California. That was a very bad idea: the skills and procedures Fender used for making Strats and Teles didn't translate into good acoustic guitars. Fender by now also owned Tacoma and Tacoma was good at making acoustic instruments, so sensibly enough Fender shifted Guild production again, this time to the Tacoma plant in Washington State. They built Guild and Tacoma guitars there side-by-side. Before long, Fender perpetrated yet another corporate buyout, Ovation this time, and decided it would be cheaper to shut down the Tacoma plant and centralise all acoustic production at Ovation's plant in Connecticut. So Guild suffered through yet another move, losing nearly all their skilled workers yet again, and Tacoma guitars disappeared completely. A few years later Fender sold the remains of Guild off to Cordoba, and sold the remains of Ovation as well. Cordoba restarted Guild production at a purpose-built new factory in California, and that is where matters rest today: Guild is owned by Cordoba and Guild guitars are made in California.

(All of this is to ignore the "Guild Westerly" instruments, which are cheap made-in-China things, not bad so far as cheap Chinese stuff goes but not of any present interest.)

I have owned a 2005 Tacoma Thunderhawk baritone for some time. Although Fender had bought the company by the time my Thunderhawk was built, it is nevertheless an excellent instrument. Similarly, Guild's build quality standards somehow remained high right through the Fender years. Tacoma-built and New Hartford-built (Ovation plant) Guild guitars are just as highly regarded as those from Guild's previous and current factories.

Now (at last!) we get to the CO-2. This was a short-lived model introduced during Guild's time at the Tacoma factory. It was a little bit cheaper than most US-made Guilds and had a radical design feature: a bolt-on neck fastened using a high-tech carbon fibre heel block. This made a lot of sense: the traditional dovetail neck joint is expensive and time consuming to manufacture, prone to early failure, and difficult to repair. Tacoma had already been making excellent bolt-on necks for years. By making a precisely repeatable block and neck fitting, every one exactly the same, a great deal of expensive and error-prone hand-fitting of necks to bodies could be avoided. Lower cost, greater reliability, and much easier to reset if that was ever needed: it was a perfect answer.

In practice it worked well but there were teething troubles. When Fender shut the Tacoma plant down, there were a lot of CO-2s on hand: unsold regular stock, B stock, warranty returns which had been replaced to the customer but not yet repaired, and stock which had failed quality control. As part of the move, Fender stamped "USED" on the back of every headstock and sold the whole lot off cheaply to shonky third-party retailers (not regular Guild dealers). The "USED" stamp made it clear that these were not regular Guild guitars with a Guild new guitar warranty. Apparently, most of the CO-2s sold this way were perfectly OK. But inevitably, some were not, and these were enough to give the whole model a bad name which continues to this day.

Image: https://tannin.net.au/other/dpr/210727_103543_5D4.jpg

From my reading I understand that there were two main issues. Neck angle troubles were the most reported, with "USED" customers having to pay for their own neck resets, if needed. Fortunately, a neck reset on a CO-2 is a simple, cheap procedure, almost as easy as it is on a Taylor. The other issue, apparently much less common, was warped necks. These are much harder to fix. Rumours flew around that the factory had used a batch of improperly seasoned timber. (That sounds unlikely to me, but in the chaos of a factory shutdown and all those workers about to lose their jobs because of a management decision, who knows what goes on?)

Tannin · July 2021

Anyway, I soon discovered that nobody ever complained about the sound of the CO-2, only the neck troubles. And those troubles were nearly 15 years ago: anything that was going to go wrong with any given guitar has already have gone wrong long since.

I liked the sound straight away - I always like the way Guild guitars sound, so no surprise there. I looked carefully at the neck: it is fine. No twist, everything is the shape it ought to be. However the saddle has been shaved about as far as it will go. In other words, if the neck moves up any further, there is not much saddle adjustment left and it will need to be reset - but being a bolt on, that will be a fairly cheap, straightforward procedure. Given the $1500 asking price, that's a risk I can happily accept in view of the fact that most second-hand Guilds are in the $3000 price range and up from there.

The action is slightly too high right now because it has a little bit too much neck relief (though perfectly playable as-is). I'll try easing off the truss rod just a touch if I can find a tool which fits. I'll wait a few days though in case it wants to move around a bit after it acclimatises to the temperature and humidity here.

The vendor put a fresh set of D'Addario EJ16s on it for me - I think those will be a good choice for it, though I will naturally do my usual experimentation with different types and brands.

Image: https://tannin.net.au/other/dpr/210726_162637_5D4.jpg

The CO-2 has a 45mm nut (which I like), and the mahogany neck is slightly chunkier than my usual Cole Clarks and Matons (this is something I'm not so keen on, but it's no big deal - I've never been one to fuss about neck shapes, only width). It is amazing how much difference going from a 44mm to a 45mm nut makes - you wouldn't think one lousy millimetre could give your fingers so much extra room!

Unlike most Guilds, the CO-2 has a plain, unbound headstock, but - astonishingly for a "budget" model - a bound ebony fretboard. Where is the logic in that? Oh well, my gain. I cannot think of a single practical, real-world advantage to a bound fretboard but for some reason I have always preferred them.

The sound is a whole new departure for me: Red Spruce over mahogany in a light, shallow body broadly similar to (say) a Martin 000. It sounds a bit like a Martin 000-18 or a CEO-7 too: not quite as big in the bass, more detailed and responsive in the treble, still very much a Guild, but distinctly Martin-ish. (Good! I nearly dropped $4000 on a 000-18 in February, now I'm innoculated against that particular form of GAS.) Like many guitars built in the American style, it feels alarmingly light and flimsy.

Mahogany is always mahogany but some people call Red Spruce "Adirondack Spruce", A good 'ol bluegrass boy will call it "adi over hawg". I have never owned a guitar made from either timber before. I have guitars with Sitka Spruce tops, and one with a Queensland Maple back (a timber some people say "is like mahogany" but it isn't, not very). In any case, the Queensland Maple one has a cedar top, so it is really a very different animal. In combination, the two timbers produce a distinctive snap, a sharp, clean attack. The full-length scale helps too - that was probably the one big sticking point with the 000-18 I didn't buy: I have never really liked short scales.

Anyway, the CO-2 is a nice little player: cheap enough that I don't mind thrashing it a bit, good enough that I will be happy to play it every day, different enough from the Cole Clark and the Matons to make a change of pace. It's not perfect by any means, but I think it will do what I want it to do very nicely.

Gandalph · July 2021

Gotta love a Guild, nice snag looks the business.

prlgmnr · July 2021

That's set the standard for future NGD posts

grayn · July 2021

Nice guitar and write up.
Congrats.

Tone71 · July 2021

That's very nice, congrats

Tannin · December 2021

OK, tell me I'm stupid. Or not - I already know it after all, but tell me anyway. Here is the CO-2 headstock. I think it is too plain for such a nice guitar. I mean why go to all the expense of a Red Spruce top and all the trouble of a bound neck, and then have a severely plain headstock, and then spoil that by using a crappy 5 cent black plastic truss rod cover?

Image: http://tannin.net.au/other/dpr/210727_103427_5D4c.jpg

Anyway, I fixed it. Well, my favourite luthier fixed it for me. Ebony and mother-of-pearl. More dollars than I care to admit to, but what the hell. It now has a proper Guild badge.

Image: http://tannin.net.au/other/dpr/new_guild.jpg

Mellish · December 2021

@Tannin nice guitar. Excellent sleuthing, too!

guitarjack66 · December 2021

@Tannin A design on a headstock really bothered you that much?

bertie · December 2021

I do like the combination of small(er) dots with bound f/board

Tannin · December 2021

It was a minor annoyance, @guitarjack66 It's a sweet guitar which deserves better than the crappy plastic. Also, the chap who did it loves doing that kind of work and he's been very kind to me with any number of small jobs, so I was pleased to be able to commission a bit of "fun work" from him. (I might have been a bit slower off the mark if I'd realised the cost though!)

@bertie yes. I subscribe to the view that dots or markers on the fretboard are completely useless most of the time. If you can see them at all, you are holding it wrong! Side dot markers are a different matter. In fact, I wish they were a bit bigger and easier to see in poor light. I would have said that I don't look at my hands when I'm playing at all, but obviously I do (if only with peripheral vision) because I start making mistakes when I play with the light very low. The one time when fret markers come into their own is when you are looking at another player trying to follow his moves. (There is a guitar teacher on You-tube who plays an instrument with no markers - why not pick up a different guitar to make the video with you dunce?)

bertie · December 2021

purely aesthetics for me - I dont really subscribe to "a correct" position - all too serious, just get on and play

90% of my playing these days is laid back sitting in an easy chair (it would be in a rocker on a front porch with ma hounds at ma feet, if I had a front porch.........and a rocker

got the hounds tho) - so a position where you always see the fretboard,

Smellyfingers · December 2021

Well done, it's got the look of a modern classic. I had a recent Guild D20 which I regret selling, really I thought it was as good if not better than the more expensive equivalent Martin.

Not sure how Guild do it with the constant upheaval they have been through, maybe being the less obvious choice means they have to try harder.

Tannin · June 2022

I've had a bit of a struggle with the CO-2. It's got so much to recommend it, but I've spent the best part of a year trying to get some balance out of it. That Red Spruce top ("Adirondack Spruce" as some people call it) is very stiff and very light and this results in:

* Clear, crisp top end, sharp as you like.

* Plenty of bottom and middle

* Very loud!

* Above all, *huge* attack, it's bordering on savage the way each note springs out of the blocks as soon as you pluck the string.

Now these are all good things. For bluegrass players they are Holy Grail features, especially when the instrument in question is a big dreadnought. In a 000-size instrument, however, the shouty Red Spruce top and live mahogany back could be seen as overkill. I've certainly struggled to tame this beast and wind up with a controlled, well-blended sound I'm happy with. It doesn't help that I auditioned the guitar in a spacious, acoustically quiet showroom but I habitually play it a live room with plenty of treble backwash off the walls and windows.

From the start I thought that the sound wasn't quite right but that, sooner or later, I'd figure out the way to extract the instrument's potential, and the key was always going to be selecting the right strings in the right gauges.

I started with a set of ordinary everyday D'Addario EJ16s and got a sound that was a little strident in the upper middle and struggled to find string-to-string tone and volume balance. That stiff, light top either goes or it doesn't. It takes a fair bit to get it moving (because it is so stiff) but once it starts it goes hard.

From there I went to a set of mediums on the theory that the extra weight and tension would move the top more easily and provide a more controllable sound with better balance, not so prone to be either on or off, and that worked pretty much as expected. The 13s I had handy were brass Darcos. They were very strident fresh on (80/20s always are) but they settled in well. The raucous upper mid sound was noticeably more restrained and balanced.

Alas, around about this time I ran into over-use injury problems in my left arm and as part of managing that I've had to pretty much stop using medium strings.

I tried stepping down a little to a bluegrass set, Elixir Nanoweb phosphor bronze. These sounded pretty good but were still fairly hard work for my fragile left hand. I swapped to another heavy-ish set, Santa Cruz Parabolic Medium Tensions. These are theoretically mediums (they go 13-56) but play more like bluegrass gauge. (The Santa Cruz Lights I've tried on another guitar are actually bluegrass gauge but play like very light 12s or stiff 11s.)

There things rested for a few months. With the bluegrass Elixirs the CO-2 was sounding more the way I wanted it to sound, but still too explosive on the attack and still too strident in the uppper mids. And those slightly-heavier strings weren't helping my sore arm. I ended up leaving it in the case a lot, and playing it for only a short while each time before growing frustrated and playing something else.

I may very well have sold it earlier this year if I hadn't spent so much on that nifty ebony and MOP truss-rod cover. I'd have had to sell the Guild and practically give away a lovely little bit of bling, or else put the plastic cover back on (assuming I could find it!) and keep a nice Guild badge with no Guild guitar to put it on. (Yes, yes, I know. Insert lecture here re the folly of considering sunk costs. It doesn't *matter* if you've spent £3000 doing up an old car: if that model is worth £1500 on the market today, it's worth £1500. Suck it up Princess.)

A few days ago I fished out a packet of D'Addario nickel bronze 12s I've had kicking around for ages. I've always intended to try Money or nickel strings on the CO-2, and I finally got around to it. The result is a revelation. All of a sudden, this guitar really works. It is far more controllable and balanced. These are the strings it has always wanted. They are very light for 12s (which is typical of D'Addario) but seem to have no trouble moving the top, even when struck very lightly. (I had to tweak the truss rod to stop it buzzing, they are so light.)

I don't think the D'Addario nickels are the last word. I plan to try a series of different Monel and nickel alloy strings - Martin Retros, SIT American Roots, John Pearse Pure Nickel, Newtone Masterclass Nickel, GHS White Bronze, whatever others I can find. (By the way, I first opened those D'Addarios 18 months ago to put them on a different guitar, then changed my mind, leaving them in the unsealed packet. Most strings would have corroded by now, these are still perfect. That's a great thing about nickel.)

The CO-2 is by no means perfect now, but it is much closer to achieving its potential. I'm picking up the Guild up as often as any of the other guitars. That's a win. It will take me a while to settle on the perfect nickel-alloy strings for it, and to work out what particular musical niches it works best for - blues for sure, don't know what else yet.

Mind you, the CO-2 is still very much itself: it still has that explosive ringing attack, it still needs careful attention to dynamics to control balance and volume (a finer player would do this better but I'm learning), it is still very loud for an OM, and it's still not something you'd really want to play a lullaby on. All of this is good: there is no point in having seven guitars all the same and I have other guitars for playing other things. This one, at long last, is on my A list.

Mellish · June 2022

@Tannin ; - you mentioned Darco strings. Unless I'm mistaken, Martin bought the company and use it to make their own strings. So, technically, although it may *say* "Darco" on the box/packet, they are Martin produced.

As I say, I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time!

Tannin · June 2022

Nope, you are spot on. Exact same string, a US dollar cheaper and not so many little paper envelopes in the packet. I often buy Darcos. (Or Martins - I mean one dollar either way, so who cares?)

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NGD - Guild

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