Classical position for normal acoustic

AllthegearNoidea · December 2020

Hi

Anyone please like this? I started playing classical years ago and gave up but after coming back to finger style my teacher pushes me to play this way.

It is easier on my left and right hands and I play better but I’m suffering a bit of back pain.

I usually just play on my own but when I’m with mates who play they take the piss. I was thinking of fitting a strap button but i don’t want to damage my guitar.

Any thoughts?

drofluf · December 2020

I also tried it but, whilst it was easier on my hands, it alo hurt my back. I imagine if you're playing anything larger than a 000 it would be like giving birth.

And the position looks very silly with a Telecaster. Apparently.

Lestratcaster · December 2020

Feels un-natural to me as I have to turn my right shoulder inwards to balance the guitar. I don't really use the higher frets either on an acoustic so playing the first 5 frets with the guitar raised would make it harder as its further away.

ToneControl · December 2020

I use a Dynarette cushion for classical and acoustic, to get the neck angle right without using a footstool or doing my back in
Dynarette Guitar Support Cushion (vamu.se)

I use it a slightly different way for large acoustics, usually with legs not crossed, then I might cross my legs too for more classical-type left hand work

I also use a sheet of this stuff to stop it slipping about

Image: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4PcAAOSwQR9fIqLA/s-l1600.jpg

AllthegearNoidea · December 2020

ToneControl said:

I use a Dynarette cushion for classical and acoustic, to get the neck angle right without using a footstool or doing my back in
Dynarette Guitar Support Cushion (vamu.se)

I use it a slightly different way for large acoustics, usually with legs not crossed, then I might cross my legs too for more classical-type left hand work

I also use a sheet of this stuff to stop it slipping about

Thanks. That’s really helpful. I appreciate your help

GTC · December 2020

I also use a Dynarette. It is very covenient when switching between guitars at home. For smaller bodied guitars I use a rolled up blanket underneath to adjust the height. I'm left handed and they are supposed to be for righties only - but with a bit of imagination a lefty can use them.

My favourite guitar support is the US-made Neck-up which is adjustable - but that is a bit more fiddly to attach so I generally only use this live. There are others - although I've never got on with the metal type and they can scratch the guitar if the fixing becomes loose.

The advantage of such supports is that you can play with both feet firmly flat on the ground giving the position of greatest mechanical advantage and overall reducing stress.

I use the "classical position" for all guitars - classical, acoustic steel strung and even electric - and so does the great Pierre Bensusan nowadays (note: I think the comparisons end there!)

guitarjack66 · March 2021

Surely its a case of whats comfortable for you and what gets you playing better? Sounds a bit snobbish to me and a lot like the way babies and young children were dissuaded from using their left hand years ago.

DavidR · March 2021

Totally agree with guitarjack66. Forcing' you to do something is very 'last season' and smacks of the my way or the highway teaching approach of Segovia from the 1950's.

Modern teaching theory would be to encourage what is optimal for the individual student. Within sensible limits. So put up a fight!!

You certainly will find classical position causes more aches and pains as it's further from the anatomical position especially for the lower back (which is twisted with a tilted pelvis by the right leg up on a footstool. The two 'acoustic' posistions are (unsurprisingly) better for the acoustic! Either legs apart with upper and lower bout across right thigh or right leg crossed over left and sit back on your chair a bit. One of these positions will be more comfortable for you and you should use it or you will get very fed up and possibly damaged.

(P.S. one of the most gifted young players in the classical ensemble I used to play in played classical in the acoustic position and he was great. Much better than me anyway!)

(P.P.S. classical players would frown on tabs and using your thumb to play the 6th string too but normal for acoustic players. Overall, and outside of specific traditions, there's no such thing as 'normal' for the guitar just as there's no such thing as a 'normal' shape for one. Do what you want and have lots of fun!)

TheMadMick · March 2021

The other alternative is to find another teacher. There are usually plenty about.

digitalkettle · March 2021

GTC said:

...
The advantage of such supports is that you can play with both feet firmly flat on the ground giving the position of greatest mechanical advantage and overall reducing stress.

This! It's not rock'n'roll but that's not what we're talking about

Also, how long have you been trying 'classical position'...and for what duration...and, pardon me for asking, are you in good shape (do you do any stretches and/or strengthening exercises)? Good posture takes some getting used to and some maintenance.

If I'm sat for a while, I use a drum stool...pretty low down...firm lower-back support...feet flat on the floor...thighs almost parallel to the floor. Then I raise the guitar with a Dynarette on the left thigh...there are two sizes of Dynarette...you can also combine it with a footstool on its lowest setting. Experiment with a towel or something similar.

This works for me with steel or nylon. It puts most guitars with the neck somewhere around 45 degrees and the soundhole somewhere around the solar plexus. My body is parallel with the guitar: neither shoulder is creeping around the side. Everything feels pretty relaxed. The guitar is tilted back towards me by a couple of degrees so that I can just see the other side of the top/fingerboard.

If I use a strap (and I did drill a classical once!), the guitar is more or less in the same position.

Having said all that, if I feel like it, I'll switch legs just for the change (crazy, I know)

nickp · March 2021

agree with all the above - and if you need toshow the teacher a classically trained guitarist doing what he wants then clive carroll isn't a bad starting point. I change to give relief to my back so at times I'll play classical especially if intensely trying to get my fingers to do as required, then I'll switch to some other unapproved pose with the guitar - whatever works

GTC · March 2021

nickp said:

agree with all the above - and if you need toshow the teacher a classically trained guitarist doing what he wants then clive carroll isn't a bad starting point. I change to give relief to my back so at times I'll play classical especially if intensely trying to get my fingers to do as required, then I'll switch to some other unapproved pose with the guitar - whatever works

Generally agree too. No-one should be forced to do anything and there is no fixed "correct" position for all people. Sometimes when I'm feeling a bit lazy I play without a guitar support. When I do use a support I find that different guitars and different pieces (in addition to my general mood that day) suit different positions. It is good to experiment.

Having said that, it is generally acknowledged that something equating to the classical position is generally the best for ease of playing and body stress relief. It is worth giving it a try - even at the risk of derision from mates and thinking it doesn't look cool.

If you've been playing in slouch mode (as I had been) for a while then it can take a bit of getting used to - but it is worth it.

Agree re Clive Carroll. A quote from the great Pierre Bensusan (translated) - "you have to adapt (playing) positions to one's own reality"

Grampa · March 2021

Just looked up images for the 'classical position'....It appears that's how I play both acoustic & electric. Feels the most comfortable to me, it's where I'm most relaxed & physically stress free. Can't see any reason to change.

kenneth_belsham · March 2021

I do, my Lowden O series is too big to play on my left leg (was causing shoulder pain in right arm) so I use a footstool and play classical style. But if it's causing you back pain and your teacher is insisting then you should leave.

guitarjack66 · March 2021

kenneth_belsham said:

I do, my Lowden O series is too big to play on my left leg (was causing shoulder pain in right arm) so I use a footstool and play classical style. But if it's causing you back pain and your teacher is insisting then you should leave.

I do this with an old jumbo I have. Its much too big for me to play any other way.

Redlester · April 2021

Aggghhhhh- I can't stand it. I love the classical guitar and really admire proper players, but the whole seated position is not for me personally.

I always liked the way that Paco De Lucia sat with a guitar, one leg crossed over the other. Very, very cool, and totally unlike his classical Spanish counterparts.

Looks and image aside, sit the way that works for you.

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Classical position for normal acoustic

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