Look at the nut on this!

Fuengi · February 2019

Posted this in the Eastman Acoustic thread too but could use some advice.

I can't play this without the Low E sliding off the board. It's been cut too close to the edge, it's also the only string that won't intonate perfectly at the 12th fret.

Gonna sent it back.

E string cut https://imgur.com/gallery/phJsllx

ICBM · February 2019

It's very slightly too far from the A, yes - you can see that the spacing is a bit off. Is the groove deep enough? If not you could bring it back closer to the A at the same time.

It won't have anything to do with the intonation at the 12th fret, that's either a bridge saddle or string issue.

Fuengi · February 2019

ICBM said:

It's very slightly too far from the A, yes - you can see that the spacing is a bit off. Is the groove deep enough? If not you could bring it back closer to the A at the same time.

It won't have anything to do with the intonation at the 12th fret, that's either a bridge saddle or string issue.

Thanks @ICBM - deep enough towards the fretboard?

The frets ends as so well finished and the fretboard has been rounded ever so slightly, both these factors add to the slipping off effect.

Maynehead · February 2019

Looks like it’s been cut at an angle, pointing towards the fretboard edge.

You could try to bring it back inline, but that would leave the slot in a fan shape, which is not ideal. I think a new nut is required.

Fuengi · February 2019

It's over £1k worth of guitar, should not have got past Eastman QC imo. The shop passed it too.

It's going back, not good enough!

sweepy · February 2019

Dare I say technique ? A lot of players push the wound strings up rather than fret on, it looks perfectly acceptable to me

Fuengi · February 2019

sweepy said:

Dare I say technique ? A lot of players push the wound strings up rather than fret on, it looks perfectly acceptable to me

You might have a point, all I can say I don't have this issue with any of my other guitars. All of which cost less than this one.

Whistler · February 2019

Given that each wooden instrument is unique, if everything else about the guitar is perfect then I would replace the nut - by all means ask the shop to replace it but I would be wary of a shop's care if this passed its quality checks. If the guitar is less than inspiring then sure, return it to the shop for another or a a refund.

ICBM · February 2019

Fuengi said:

Thanks @ICBM - deep enough towards the fretboard?

The frets ends as so well finished and the fretboard has been rounded ever so slightly, both these factors add to the slipping off effect.

That looks like it isn’t helping. Yes, you can only fix it without changing the nut if the groove needs to be deepened as well.

sweepy said:

Dare I say technique ? A lot of players push the wound strings up rather than fret on, it looks perfectly acceptable to me

The string *is* too close to the edge though - you can clearly see it in the close-up photo - only a tiny bit, but probably enough to make the difference.

Whistler said:

Given that each wooden instrument is unique, if everything else about the guitar is perfect then I would replace the nut - by all means ask the shop to replace it but I would be wary of a shop's care if this passed its quality checks. If the guitar is less than inspiring then sure, return it to the shop for another or a a refund.

I would agree with this. I generally wouldn’t trust either the importer or an average shop tech to get it right, so
if the rest of the guitar is great then it’s best to keep the guitar and pay a good luthier to do it. It shouldn’t cost more than about £50 - annoying on top of the cost of the guitar, but small in the grand scheme of it...

fretfinder · February 2019

Deffo look like the slot is too far towards the bass side but it’s a little hard to tell definitively as the photo is taken slightly from the left-hand side. That’s the thing with these camera phones, the lens is always over to one side so to get a dead-centred close-up I always have to remind myself to centre the actual lens over the object, not the phone.

Fuengi · February 2019

ICBM said:

Fuengi said:

Thanks @ICBM - deep enough towards the fretboard?

The frets ends as so well finished and the fretboard has been rounded ever so slightly, both these factors add to the slipping off effect.

That looks like it isn’t helping. Yes, you can only fix it without changing the nut if the groove needs to be deepened as well.

Ok, I get it. No, I'm not sure there is enough to cut down and across. It's been cut slightly on the angle as @Maynehead picked up, just enough to push it away from the correct line. Photos here https://imgur.com/gallery/DvpLO72.

sweepy said:

Dare I say technique ? A lot of players push the wound strings up rather than fret on, it looks perfectly acceptable to me

The string *is* too close to the edge though - you can clearly see it in the close-up photo - only a tiny bit, but probably enough to make the difference.

I've taken some close up pictures that show the issue. If you look at the high e you can see where the frets start to bevel and how it sits across the flat part of the fret. The low E is sitting half across the flat fret and half across the bevel. With my imperfect technique any upward pressure at all sushes it off the side of the board.

jtler said:

Given that each wooden instrument is unique, if everything else about the guitar is perfect then I would replace the nut - by all means ask the shop to replace it but I would be wary of a shop's care if this passed its quality checks. If the guitar is less than inspiring then sure, return it to the shop for another or a a refund.

I would agree with this. I generally wouldn’t trust either the importer or an average shop tech to get it right, so
if the rest of the guitar is great then it’s best to keep the guitar and pay a good luthier to do it. It shouldn’t cost more than about £50 - annoying on top of the cost of the guitar, but small in the grand scheme of it...

I would agree with this too. Having had a the night to sleep on it and another go on t this morning it is a lovely guitar. I checked the intonation this morning and it's bang on now across all the frets. I think they must have put new strings on it and that was the issue yesterday with the intonation as you identified. I stretched them out last night and the guitar is perfectly in tune this morning.

So, it's just the nut issue to resolve.

From what I can see there are only two of these guitars in the country, it's the pre 2018 specification with a rosewood board and no scratch plate. This one is really nice, love the sunburst and it rings out very nicely indeed. I'm edging towards keeping it and sorting the nut out.

brojangles · February 2019

Where did you get it from? Richards?

Fuengi · February 2019

brojangles said:

Where did you get it from? Richards?

No. I did discuss with Richard and I must say that he was absolutely great to deal with, but they only had the updated spec version with the ebony board and the scratch plate which isn't for me.

I got it from Peach, and they have been excellent to deal with. I take back the issue over the intonation, that has resolved itself with stretching out the new strings last night.

The nut issue is marginal, and I can understand how they missed it. It is only really an issue because the fret ends are so well dressed that the slight mis-alignment at the nut is pushing it on to the sloped section. In hindsight I can't really blame QC for missing this, you need to play it for 10 minutes to understand what is happening. I think I was just reacting yesterday as it was fresh.

Peach did highlight some swirling on the finish which I can't really see and gave me a discount for that.

brojangles · February 2019

Only asking because I've half got my eye on the one in Ivor Maraints! Every one of these I've tried has been really good. Sorry to hear about the nut issues and hope you manage to get it sorted.

Fuengi · February 2019

brojangles said:

Only asking because I've half got my eye on the one in Ivor Maraints! Every one of these I've tried has been really good. Sorry to hear about the nut issues and hope you manage to get it sorted.

I think that the one in Ivor Moraints is the only other rosewood board / no scratch plate sunburst version in the uk, certainly the only one I found. Richard confirmed his are the newer version - which also look very nice.

Guitar Village has a used E10ss/v in stock which I have played and is lovely. I believe it also has a pickup installed but must admit I didn't notice it.

I'm more happy this morning with it, the intonation issue having gone away. I've contacted Peach, hopefully they will either just want me to return it or perhaps offer some compensation for a replacement nut. I await a response!

All the things you hear about these seem to be true, the nut aside it looks really well made. The sunburst is really nice, quite dark and caramel colour and the mahogany on the b&s and the back of the neck is as good as i have ever seen. Incredible patternation.

Shame about that bloomin' nut!

Fuengi · February 2019

Update - Peach messaged my this morning to say they would organise the collection at a date that suited me. They had actually read this thread and also offered to pay £50 towards a luthier making a new nut.

maltingsaudio · February 2019

Fuengi said:

Update - Peach messaged my this morning to say they would organise the collection at a date that suited me. They had actually read this thread and also offered to pay £50 towards a luthier making a new nut.

Can’t say fairer than that!

TINMAN82 · March 2019

I had this problem on a new AV52 tele. As you say, slipping issue exacerbated by (slightly overdone) fingerboard rolling and fret edge bevelling. Otherwise great guitar so I had a proper luthier fit a new nut. Problem solved.

Fuengi · March 2019

TINMAN82 said:

I had this problem on a new AV52 tele. As you say, slipping issue exacerbated by (slightly overdone) fingerboard rolling and fret edge bevelling. Otherwise great guitar so I had a proper luthier fit a new nut. Problem solved.

Peach put new strings on an the Low E was really stiff for a couple of days, which with the slight angle on the nut cut and the fret ends meant it just slipped off. It's now ok having settled in, although I think it could do with a new nut just to help the the low e resonate. Plus every thime i put new strings on it's gonna be the same issue.

ICBM · March 2019

Fuengi said:

Peach put new strings on an the Low E was really stiff for a couple of days, which with the slight angle on the nut cut and the fret ends meant it just slipped off. It's now ok having settled in, although I think it could do with a new nut just to help the the low e resonate. Plus every thime i put new strings on it's gonna be the same issue.

So they didn't replace it?

It sounds like it might actually just need the nut widening slightly toward the A string, in fact - that would move the string very slightly further from the edge and also stop that kink in the string. You could probably get away with it even if the groove is the right height already.

Fuengi · March 2019

ICBM said:

Fuengi said:

Peach put new strings on an the Low E was really stiff for a couple of days, which with the slight angle on the nut cut and the fret ends meant it just slipped off. It's now ok having settled in, although I think it could do with a new nut just to help the the low e resonate. Plus every thime i put new strings on it's gonna be the same issue.

So they didn't replace it?

It sounds like it might actually just need the nut widening slightly toward the A string, in fact - that would move the string very slightly further from the edge and also stop that kink in the string. You could probably get away with it even if the groove is the right height already.

No, Peach offered to pay for my tech to replace the nut. I'm trying to book him in to do it at the moment.

Fuengi · March 2019

It's back, new nut fitted. Big thanks to Paul at Courtney and Walker who complained that I didn't give him another week to touch up the new nut with violin polish (he wanted another week to apply a bit each day - he's very particular).

I've overlaid the old nut on top so you can see the difference. It's a lot.

Guitar now plays much better, not just because the strings are evenly spaced but it holds a note forever.

New nut on E10ss https://imgur.com/gallery/4jVPzJN

barry2tone · March 2019

Good to hear it got sorted. Enjoy!

Strat_a_tat_tat · March 2019

Glad it's sorted out nicely.

Kudos to Peach for doing what they needed to do to ensure a happy customer.

Fuengi · March 2019

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

Glad it's sorted out nicely.

Kudos to Peach for doing what they needed to do to ensure a happy customer.

Indeed. All sorted out, Peach were great.

Something nagging me about the nut still. It was so poorly cut, really quite crap. None of the strings were the correct distance apart. Makes me wonder how well the guitar was made... maybe it was just an off day for the nut guy / gal.

Interesting that Paul the tech guy (who works on high end violins and cello's as well as guitars) was impressed with the guitar.

There are a couple of uneven frets, but they don't affect the action or the playability. Generally they are good.

There are a few scratch marks on the edges of the fret board.

The Eastman 'handmade' thing alludes to the fact that these are top end instruments at an affordable price. I don't think that's really true, had this been a Gibson we'd all be tutting at the QC and rolling eyes.

It's a very good guitar and probably value for money. More so than a Gibson or Martin? I wouldn't say so.

Snags · March 2019

I think "handmade" has two rather distinct meanings/implications.

One, as you say, is that it's a lovingly crafted guitar with attention to detail. The other is it might have a few quirks which make it individual and characterful

brucegill · March 2019

“Handmade”, “top-end” and “affordable”. Think you can only hope to have two of those words together unfortunately. They’ve always seemed a bit pricey to me. They do seem to get some nice looking wood though. But then how much would that have cost with a Martin logo? Can’t see Martin doing that to the nut but assume most Martins are more factory cnc than “handmade” unless you spend mega £££££

Fuengi · March 2019

brucegill said:

“Handmade”, “top-end” and “affordable”. Think you can only hope to have two of those words together unfortunately. They’ve always seemed a bit pricey to me. They do seem to get some nice looking wood though. But then how much would that have cost with a Martin logo? Can’t see Martin doing that to the nut but assume most Martins are more factory cnc than “handmade” unless you spend mega £££££

I think a Gibson J45 comes in around £2.5k which is well over twice what I paid. The woods on the Eastman are very, very nice also.

brucegill · March 2019

That’s a good point. That is crazy really when you think about it. Twice the price!? I would have thought your right in thinking the Nut guy/girl had an off day. Can’t see that being the same person that managed to put a whole guitar together that plays well, sounds good and looks great. And you might not get a perfect Gibson, even at twice the price.

Hope tou you get to enjoy the guitar now it’s back mate.

Fuengi · March 2019

brucegill said:

That’s a good point. That is crazy really when you think about it. Twice the price!? I would have thought your right in thinking the Nut guy/girl had an off day. Can’t see that being the same person that managed to put a whole guitar together that plays well, sounds good and looks great. And you might not get a perfect Gibson, even at twice the price.

Hope tou you get to enjoy the guitar now it’s back mate.

Thanks, I am enjoying it, lovely guitar and the J45 shape / scale is just perfect for me.

It's an odd one with the nut and finishing, there are definitely some corners cut. The guitar itself plays and sounds great and I love the way it looks.

Comparing to the PRS Angelus I just bought its a better guitar to play, but the finish on the PRS is immaculate.

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