Do I really need a nice OM?

danishbacon · February 2018

I have a dreadnought in cedar/mahogany that I live to play. Really full sound, great harmonics, clarity and low end. In fact it's almost a bit of a loose cannon if you really dig in.

I've been toying with the idea of a completely superfluous purchase, a high end OM in rosewood/Sitka. I'm not sure who really other than the attraction of playing a smaller bodied guitar that might be a bit tighter than my dread.

Any thoughts welcome

usedtobe · February 2018

Yes.

danishbacon · February 2018

usedtobe said:

Yes.

That just about settles it then.

It feels like an itch I don't want to scratc but I must .

bluechargeboy · February 2018

I had this urge, and was put off the whole idea by actually playing some. Dreadnoughts are massive on me, but I don't find smaller guitars as satisfying tone-wise.

Although maybe I didn't play sufficiently expensive OMs.......

danishbacon · February 2018

bluechargeboy said:

I had this urge, and was put off the whole idea by actually playing some. Dreadnoughts are massive on me, but I don't find smaller guitars as satisfying tone-wise.

Although maybe I didn't play sufficiently expensive OMs.......

Well I got to play a few high end instruments of this size at Knighton Guitar. They had a lovely Atkin OM with a light relic. Such a lightweight and personable guitar, waaaay too much £ for my blood. The larivees I played sounded dull and heavy, didn't try any other ones as the picking was slim for OMs.

This one I'm eyeing is mail-order only unfortunately but would have an 8 day return if not happy with it.

Moe_Zambeek · February 2018

Have you tried any 000s? I prefer them to OMs.

danishbacon · February 2018

Moe_Zambeek said:

Have you tried any 000s? I prefer them to OMs.

I have not, no @Moe_Zambeek . How come?

richardhomer · February 2018

The answer is ‘it depends’. I find a good Dreadnought generally finger picks quite well - and tackles some stuff smaller guitars aren’t quite as good at. So personally, I’ve never felt able to justify owning both.

The two best sounding acoustics I’ve ever played are a neighbour’s sunburst 00028 (I think it’s some kind of vintage reissue) and a Santa Cruz Dreadnought. I’d be delighted to own either....

danishbacon · February 2018

That makes sense @richardhomer. The dread I currently have plays a lot of styles very well, from soft to loud. My 'want' came more from having a guitar that with totally different tonewoods and size would certainly sound different. It also has a slightly narrower neck 43mm Vs 45 on my Dread. 1mm thicker neck at the 1st fret, V to c shape on 12th for the OM I'm looking at .

AliGorie · February 2018

Moe_Zambeek said:

Have you tried any 000s? I prefer them to OMs.

hu ?, whats the difference - they look the same - only thing I've noticed is 000 tend to lend themselves to flatpick players who occasionally fingerpick and OM's the other way round.

jellyroll · February 2018

I'm asking myself the inverse. I have 3 OMs - do I "need" a dread?

AliGorie · February 2018

jellyroll said:

I'm asking myself the inverse. I have 3 OMs - do I "need" a dread?

if ya gotta have another guitar - why not a Dread - or what about a (J)OM / deep body.

danishbacon said:

That makes sense @richardhomer. with totally different tonewoods and size would certainly sound different. It also has a slightly narrower neck 43mm Vs 45 on my Dread. 1mm thicker neck at the 1st fret, V to c shape on 12th for the OM I'm looking at .

I just dont get all the 'difference whih woods' & 2mm width / 1 mm depth - for me it's the OVERALL sound and feel which component parts and dimensions OVERALL don't actually figure in my experience - that's 55 playing yrs.
Like Lewy says on another thread - we need the blindfold approach to sort things out - for real.

Moe_Zambeek · February 2018

danishbacon said:

Moe_Zambeek said:

Have you tried any 000s? I prefer them to OMs.

I have not, no @Moe_Zambeek . How come?

Just an observation from trying some of late - Martins anyway. The shorter scale just suits the body shape and sounds less shouty to me. The OMs I tried sounded like a thinner dread with a lack of midrange for strumming applications.

danishbacon · February 2018

To further confuse me, playing a lower end OM left me a bit uninspired. A higher end one was nice but not really felt it either. I did quite like the size though .

BigLicks67 · February 2018

AliGorie said:

Moe_Zambeek said:

Have you tried any 000s? I prefer them to OMs.

hu ?, whats the difference - they look the same - only thing I've noticed is 000 tend to lend themselves to flatpick players who occasionally fingerpick and OM's the other way round.

Historically, Martin 000 were 629mm scale and OM's 645mm scale, nowadays it only really applies from the standard series upwards.

BigLicks67 · February 2018

I've got a D28 & an OM18V and they are different beasts, however, if the size of the dreadnought is not a problem for you then I'd stick with that as it is probably the most versatile for different styles and playing techniques.

AliGorie · February 2018

OK, heres my take on OM's vs 000's -
24.9 = 126.37
25,4 = 131.54
now for ‘developed’ hands that difference in tension shouldn’t be an issue, heres (broadly speaking) why the typical 000 is better for plectrum work and the OM is better for fingerpicking - it’s to do with the bridge’s position in relation to the X brace system.
You’ll note that only OM bridge ‘wings’ are over the X allowing the top to vibrate more freely when (lightly) fingerpicked. But it may sound strident / over-driven with a flatpick.
Whereas the with the 000 the whole bridge is directly ‘in contact’ with the X brace making it better for strumming and ‘lead’ paling with a flatpack.
the 000

Image: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theunofficialmartinguitarforum/imageproxy.php?url=http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/Volvoguy/Henk-o-grams/32om18henk.jpg

and a 1930's OM

danishbacon · February 2018

Very interesting @AliGorie thanks for chiming in. @BigLicks67, do you find that you play different styles on both guitars, or keep defaulting to one or the other?

AliGorie · February 2018

hey dan-b,
look here -
http://www.vintagemartin.com/xbraces.html

more info pics here -

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theunofficialmartinguitarforum/martin-bracing-library-t847.html
also
OM28.com root about on there
http://om28.com/custom/article/AcousticGuitarNotes-05.jsp

as for playing styles / guitars, I can and do play all my own 'steel string' on a far east 000, Bourgie JOM, Lowdie L25 and Yairi SJ 12'er no difference cept some 'intricate' pieces are a bit to much to pull off on the 12'er. Don't / cant play other peoples music cept my take on some trad stuff.
then there's 'nylon' stuff on a Spanish made and a Flamenco I built myself.

Jalapeno · February 2018

Yes.

Strangefan · February 2018

I see acoustics a bit differently , I am happy to have say 2 electrics , but for me I wouldn't want more than one acoustic , and I play acoustic more than any other type of guitar, and love that I have this one special guitar which just sounds right when I play it , I find them more alive than electrics and they respond so much to different techniques ,plus you can't hide behind an acoustic, it would feel like I'm cheating lol

or maybe I just need to get out more!

ToneControl · February 2018

Definitely no
I sold my OMs, kept the jumbos and slope-shouldered dreads

KKJale · February 2018

Having spent years with two OM's, one an ex-Fylde maker's, one a Collings, both now gone, I'd say... maybe.

IMO, neck width and string spacing allowing, the potentially better complement to a dread is a 12-fret 000.

ToneControl · February 2018

Strangefan said:

I see acoustics a bit differently , I am happy to have say 2 electrics , but for me I wouldn't want more than one acoustic , and I play acoustic more than any other type of guitar, and love that I have this one special guitar which just sounds right when I play it , I find them more alive than electrics and they respond so much to different techniques ,plus you can't hide behind an acoustic, it would feel like I'm cheating lol or maybe I just need to get out more!

Some people only ever want to play one guitar. I think Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlings stick to one guitar

There are other reasons to have other ones though: a Tenor guitar, an open-tuning one, a nylon, a baritone

BigLicks67 · February 2018

danishbacon said:

Very interesting @AliGorie thanks for chiming in. @BigLicks67, do you find that you play different styles on both guitars, or keep defaulting to one or the other?

The D28 is on a stand all the time so that is the one I use most often and it is good for most styles. The OM is great for finger picking has forward shifted x bracing that is scalloped so the top really is lively. However, I don't think this particular model is a strummers guitar.

BigLicks67 · February 2018

AliGorie said:

OK, heres my take on OM's vs 000's -
24.9 = 126.37
25,4 = 131.54
now for ‘developed’ hands that difference in tension shouldn’t be an issue, heres (broadly speaking) why the typical 000 is better for plectrum work and the OM is better for fingerpicking - it’s to do with the bridge’s position in relation to the X brace system.
You’ll note that only OM bridge ‘wings’ are over the X allowing the top to vibrate more freely when (lightly) fingerpicked. But it may sound strident / over-driven with a flatpick.
Whereas the with the 000 the whole bridge is directly ‘in contact’ with the X brace making it better for strumming and ‘lead’ paling with a flatpack.
the 000

and a 1930's OM

AG I believe pre war OMs had forward shifted bracing which would account for differences in these pictures.

AliGorie · February 2018

AG I believe pre war OMs had forward shifted bracing which would account for differences in these pictures.

BL67, the 'PRE WAR' bracing hadn't been 'shifted' anywhere, thats where they'd evolved too be via the 'mutha' of this model line - the 000 12 fret - dont let the 12 fret thing cloud the issue as many do. The major benefit of the original 000 was, as I mentioned above the relationship of the position of the bridge to the X bracing system.
Do remember that the 000 was the largest model martin made until the Dread was designed for volume to compete with fiddle, banjo and vocals all around one microphone.
The OM was a 'modified' 000 to give access to higher frets - they squared off the shoulders and the bottom bout but left the bracing as was - because the 000 had 25.4 scale and that didn't change with the OM in other words it was tried and tested STRUCTURALLY robust and wasn't gonna trigger warranty repairs, AND it allowed the top to resonate.
The quality of raw materials (spruce) changed and the beefed up the tops and bracing which culminated in the overbuilt offerings of the 1970's and '80's

If you'r interested go through the links I put in above - should unravel all the (deliberate) Martin marketing guff on bracing.
Going back to the source of this model, the 000 12 fret heres a recent one, built properly in spruce and MAPLE - yes 'humble' maple ( I bought a similar b/s set for £50) - but just listen to it, it compares with some of the best I've herd on the web
A Circa Guitar by John Slobod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWpQwBxiAEI

nice article on him here Circa-
https://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/circa-guitars-shop-tour/

and the real thing a 1931 000 go to 2.25 mins in
and no, you wouldn’t want to strum these - way to much sonic information going on

hope this all makes sense

Jimbro66 · February 2018

danishbacon said:

I have a dreadnought in cedar/mahogany that I live to play. Really full sound, great harmonics, clarity and low end. In fact it's almost a bit of a loose cannon if you really dig in.

I've been toying with the idea of a completely superfluous purchase, a high end OM in rosewood/Sitka. I'm not sure who really other than the attraction of playing a smaller bodied guitar that might be a bit tighter than my dread.

Any thoughts welcome

My two-pennuth: Firstly a £1200 budget isn’t going to buy anything ‘high end’ so there will already be some compromise in construction and tone. Secondly, what is an OM going to do for you that the dread does not?

I gig with an Atkin OM28H Retrospective model and also own a sub-£1,000 OM and sub-£1,000 super jumbo. The latter gets very little use. As an OM user I would see no point in spending a lot of money on a dread unless I had a specific need for it, e.g. bluegrass flat picking. It works both ways. To my mind there is not sufficient reason to own a dread and an OM other than GAS.

If you had said you were considering a twelve-fret parlour guitar or something like an L1 I could see the sense in that as they are very diffent beasts that may well encourage exploration of other playing styles and provide a very different playing experience. But an OM? Save your money

BigLicks67 · February 2018

AG - okay let's call it the original bracing, the point I was trying to make is that the Clapton model follows the bracing pattern of the modern standard series, as would a modern OM model, so theoretically the braces should be in the same place on a 2008 000-28EC and a 2008 OM21 or OM18 or OM28.

AliGorie · February 2018

BigLicks67 said:

so theoretically the braces should be in the same place on a 2008 000-28EC and a 2008 OM21 or OM18 or OM28.

But is it ? - what your suggesting is the two scale lenghts have the same position of bracing - ?.
that's the problem with cf martin - I know there's forward / backward / scalloped non- scalloped 5/16th / 1/4 inch and on and on - they just don't have any ideas other than regurgitating the past in as many permutations possible.

BigLicks67 · February 2018

@danishbacon - you may find this useful. This is my dreadnought played with a pick closely followed by my OM. It's just a rough recording with a Zoom H1 but it gives you an idea of the differences between the 2 types.

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Do I really need a nice OM?

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