Best pickup for amplifying natural sound?

DefaultM · March 2014

I'm after a soundhole pickup for my Takamine gs330s and I'm stuck between choices.
I've been looking at the rare earth blend, seymour Duncan mag mic and the LR Baggs M1.

I hate that typical electro acoustic thin sound which sounds nothing like the actual guitar. I want it to sound just like my guitar but louder. Which would be the best choice?

Lewy · March 2014

You won't get your-guitar-but-louder from a soundhole pickup either, but the good ones sound better than a piezo any day imho. Are you thinking of permanently installing it? Because if so, the budget for the high end soundhole pickups gets you into the same ballpark as things like K&K Pure Mini soundboard transducers and such which will get you closer to your-guitar-but-louder. Obviously if you dont want to do a permanent installation then soundhole is the way to go though.

DefaultM · March 2014

I don't want to have one of those that has controls on the side of the guitar unfortunately. It's only a cheap guitar but it sounds nicer than any other acoustic I've tried and I wouldn't want to cut it up.

ICBM · March 2014

I think the Fishman sounds more like a 'modern' electro-acoustic-type sound (clear, bright and possibly a bit clinical), and the Baggs sounds more like a 'vintage' one (punchy, more midrangy and possibly a tiny bit 'dirty'), if that helps at all. That's just the impression I get of them from hearing them separately though, I haven't actually A/B'd them directly on the same guitar.

I haven't tried the Duncan, although I have an older passive Woody, which is OK but nothing special. A good solution for just chucking quickly into a guitar when you need something vaguely amplifyable, but no more than that (in my opinion).

midlifecrisis · March 2014

my friend and I a/b my cheepy artec (£25) soundhole p/u with his expensive Baggs, both on the same guitar, through a pa system, very little difference tbh, neither sounded acoustic guitar like compared to just micing up. but both useable.

crunchman · March 2014

Lewy said:

You won't get your-guitar-but-louder from a soundhole pickup either, but the good ones sound better than a piezo any day imho. Are you thinking of permanently installing it? Because if so, the budget for the high end soundhole pickups gets you into the same ballpark as things like K&K Pure Mini soundboard transducers and such which will get you closer to your-guitar-but-louder. Obviously if you dont want to do a permanent installation then soundhole is the way to go though.

This.

ESBlonde · March 2014

If you are absolutely fastidious about the amplified sound you are going to have to use a mic. But a good sound can be achieved by using a pickup and blending some mic signal on top.
Even a cheap tie clip condenser in the sound hole puts 'air and dimension' into the sound but the main volume content comes from the pickup. If the player is sat still on a stool and in an acoustic setting then mostly Mic and a bit of PU is noticeably better.
It the band is just a rock outfit and the acoustic guitar is strumming away in the middle of the mix forget the mic and just use the PU.

Monkeybone · March 2014

I've just had an LR Baggs Anthem SL installed on my GS Mini, basically an internal mic combined with an Element under saddle pickup, only had a few plays with it so far but it does sound bloody lovely. The under saddle pickup is purely to pick up the lower end sounds, and the internal mic for everything else. I highly recommend.

Edit: Forgot to mention, the volume control goes inside the soundhole, so no big unit stuck on the side.

crunchman · March 2014

Blenders are the best sounding, but the OP said that it's for a cheap guitar so I doubt he'd want to go to that kind of money.

As @Lewy said above, the K&K Pure Mini is the best I've come across for getting closest to natural sounds without spending mucho money for a blender system.

bertie · March 2014

oh, I cant be bothered now......................... as you were

yournextguitar · March 2014

See the review on our YouTube channel on acoustic pickups - yournextguitar.com - the Fishman is a great soundhole pickup and very natural as is the LR Baggs equivalent.

menamestom · March 2014

I've just installed a Fishman Neo D Humbucker which is very nice, I prefer it to the Fishman UST that I have in the same guitar. It's a nice sound but like most mag's, not particularly acoustic sounding, but the more body and air you have in your sound the less it will cut and the more it will feed back anyway. IMO for a completely true acoustic sound you really need to cover three things:-

String sound - Magnetic soundhole pickups
Body Sound - Bound Board Transducer - K&K pure or a mag with body sensing like the M1
Air - Mics, external or internal like the Lyric or Anthem

I've recently been experimenting with the mag into my mixer (Allen and Heath with Hi Z input), mixing in the UST and also an external Rode M3 for the 'Air'. As soon as I add the Mic positioning and EQ tweaking comes into play and since the mag is a very nice (if not accurate acoustic sound), I find it easier to just take the mic out of the equation. I'm tempted to add a K&K at some time to give me more 'body', they are pretty cheap and may mix well with a magnetic.

DefaultM · March 2014

This is a shame. I've got a Dean Markley Tahoe at the minute and that gives the typical electro acoustic sound so I'm not looking to spend £200 to get that same sound.
I might get an SE Electronics mic or something.

menamestom · March 2014

DefaultM said:

This is a shame. I've got a Dean Markley Tahoe at the minute and that gives the typical electro acoustic sound so I'm not looking to spend £200 to get that same sound.
I might get an SE Electronics mic or something.

I think the K&K could be an option, they are around £90 but are a bit fiddly to fit as I understand, you could add the magnetic to the K&K's output jack and have it permanently mounted. I think that would give you more realism but you might have to budget for fitting if you are not practically minded.

Don't give up on the Dean Markley, most mags have good feedback rejection and solid bass, useful attributes that can be added to other pickups to get a better overall sound. Also handy if the K&K was struggling with feedback in a loud situation, at least you could dial it out and have a usable sound. And in a quieter situation you could go more or all K&K for more acoustic realism.
Wired like this the output would be stereo, you would need a y lead to split the sources and then mix through a desk, amp or PA.

crunchman · March 2014

K&K is easier to fit than an undersaddle - you don't have to rout anything. It may be a bit sensitive to putting the sensors in the right place but its basically matter of sticking them on the underside of the soundboard.

The wiring is simple as well because it is passive so you don't have to add a battery compartment. I've plugged mine straight into a PA with a bog standard active DI box, and its got enough oomph so it simplifies things a lot not having to worry about changing batteries.

ICBM · March 2014

menamestom said:
I think the K&K could be an option, they are around £90 but are a bit fiddly to fit as I understand, you could add the magnetic to the K&K's output jack and have it permanently mounted. I think that would give you more realism but you might have to budget for fitting if you are not practically minded.

Don't give up on the Dean Markley, most mags have good feedback rejection and solid bass, useful attributes that can be added to other pickups to get a better overall sound. Also handy if the K&K was struggling with feedback in a loud situation, at least you could dial it out and have a usable sound. And in a quieter situation you could go more or all K&K for more acoustic realism.
Wired like this the output would be stereo, you would need a y lead to split the sources and then mix through a desk, amp or PA.

I think this is a very sensible approach. Acoustic realism is all well and good, but in any louder situation it's not the critical factor - the ability to get a decent 'acoustic-ish' tone without feedback is.

I don't like internal mics at all, they don't sound anything like an external mic and they always cause feedback problems, so to me they're neither one thing or the other - I'd rather have a K&K or other soundboard pickup for a more natural sound. If you're actually in a quiet enough situation where it matters enough that you want a mic, just use a real mic. You'll be sitting down at that sort of gig anyway most likely.

crunchman said:

K&K is easier to fit than an undersaddle - you don't have to rout anything. It may be a bit sensitive to putting the sensors in the right place but its basically matter of sticking them on the underside of the soundboard.

The wiring is simple as well because it is passive so you don't have to add a battery compartment. I've plugged mine straight into a PA with a bog standard active DI box, and its got enough oomph so it simplifies things a lot not having to worry about changing batteries.

I also much prefer passive onboard systems with the powered stuff offboard - less work to fit, more reliable, more flexible, easier to upgrade (or bypass in an emergency) - although I don't mind active soundhole pickups too much.

menamestom · March 2014

ICBM said:

I also much prefer passive onboard systems with the powered stuff offboard - less work to fit, more reliable, more flexible, easier to upgrade (or bypass in an emergency) - although I don't mind active soundhole pickups too much.

Yes and the good thing about the k&k, unlike a passive UST is the output is plenty to go straight into an amp. So I hear.

ICBM · March 2014

menamestom said:
Yes and the good thing about the k&k, unlike a passive UST is the output is plenty to go straight into an amp. So I hear.

The output of most passive USTs is as well. You just need to be careful about impedance loading - the same is true of the K&K. They're really not much different in technology, only in how they're coupled to the guitar.

bob21 · March 2014

Although it's of limited interest due to budget, I thought it might be interesting for others to share..

I had the pleasure of doing sound for Martin Simpson this week - and the pleasure of hearing one of the best plugged-in guitar tones I have heard in a very long time! I genuinely don't think I could have got the sound much better with any of our stock of mics (good stuff, AT, AKG, Rode etc) - and certainly not at the same level!

So, how does he do it, you ask..

There is a Highlander under saddle pickup, and a McIntyre feather transducer, both wired to a stereo jack, which are then split to 2 channels of a DTAR Solstice.

So all in all, about 500 notes! So in my opinion, that's what you have to spend to get a truly natural sound, at gig-levels. And remember, he's not competing with a noisy drummer either!

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Best pickup for amplifying natural sound?

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