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thomasross20 · October 2017

Just curious how many of you actually do the whole guitar slapping, tuner tweaking (thinking of Passion Flower by Jon Gomm..), half-capo use, harp harmonics tricks etc a lot of these modern players are doing? Personally... I do a few (badly performed) flamenco hand techniques, I do the alternating thumb thing, and I like to sing along whilst fingerpicking (like Lindsey Buckingham's "Big Love" acoustic version). I really just wondered... is it only these "advanced" acoustic players that are doing all those other things?

Hand on heart.. a few of those types of pieces I love, but a whole album-full is a hard swallow (and I think can sound very "same-y"). I much prefer the whole singer-songwriter thing. And I love listening to tunes with alternate tunings on the guitar, but I'm too big a scaredy-cat to give it a proper go!

I like Ewan Dobson's stuff but even when watching it on YouTube, I must admit I was dying to hear a bit of vocals chucked in there.. the exception to this rule is Tommy Emmanuel whose guitar playing I rarely tire of listening to.

Jimbro66 · October 2017

I think that style of playing is very much a Marmite thing - some love it and others dislike it. Me included. I saw a busker doing all that stuff a few days ago. He did it well but each tune sounded much the same and it became musical wallpaper. No vocals. Just an exercise in technique, devoid of any fire or passion. Others may have thought it great, who knows.

thomasross20 · October 2017

Musical wallpaper.. great description

guitarfishbay · October 2017

Check out Jake Morley. Caught him at an open mic night a few years ago and really enjoyed his songs.

Lewy · October 2017

The odd percussive slap here and there for effect or punctuation but nothing that puts it as a significant part of the arrangement.

I see it in the same light as the over-use of loop pedals - I appreciate the artistry of people who do it very well but when it's too central a part of the piece it can make for some very tedious music imo.

My favourite instance will always be this

Winny_Pooh · October 2017

It was amazeballs when Hedges did it, now its a sideshow for the short attention span generation. I knew it was a lost cause after my parents watched that piece of crap movie August Rush where "genius kiddo" does the slap and tap guitar thing.

Strangefan · October 2017

I do it when it's needed only, it's not just technique, used properly it can sound amazing, as long as it's not the main part of the song,

CHRISB50 · October 2017

It can sound amazing, and sometimes does. Very, very few people seem to be able to do it and retain a real musical element. It ends up as pure showmanship, whereas good music is something that sounds good.

I think there is a huge amount of difference to be had between watching a YT video, or live performance vs listening to the same thing without the visual aspect.

With a lot of the percussive acoustic stuff I think once the visual aspect is lost, the interest wains quickly.

thomasross20 · October 2017

I agree about the visual impact.. without a flash video, it's a hard gig to maintain interest doing that sort of thing.
I thought it was only me who thought this!

Floof · October 2017

It's never really appealed to me - as a spectacle and as a demonstration of what it possible when someone talented works REALLY hard I get it.

I just think that most of the examples of the resulting music that gets made that way doesn't really move me or appeal to me.

To be honest I have a similar reaction to solo finger style arrangements of pretty much anything - the technical challenge of playing the baseline, melody and vocal line, and some percussion isn't lost on me, I just think I'd enjoy the performance more if the hundreds of hours of technique development had gone into singing lessons and just performing the song :-)

earwighoney · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

Just curious how many of you actually do the whole guitar slapping, tuner tweaking (thinking of Passion Flower by Jon Gomm..)

I have no problem with the techniques itself, but my observations are that particular type of playing/scene is the technique is the sole focus of the playing/style opposed to composition.

TheBigDipper · October 2017

I don't. At the mo I'm struggling with trying to adopt the Richard Thompson right hand acoustic technique. He's using a pick held between the thumb/first finger (surprise!) and plays very rhythmic bass with that and independently plays melody lines or triads with the second/third/fourth fingers. I'm quite happy using the pick and right hand fingers at the same time playing the same chord, but independent of each other is something else. I'm still at the stage of stopping the playing of the bass notes for the beats where I'm playing a melody note far too much for my liking.

Go here to see what I mean...

thomasross20 · October 2017

I'll check that at home later.. sounds interesting..

Lewy · October 2017

TheBigDipper said:

I don't. At the mo I'm struggling with trying to adopt the Richard Thompson right hand acoustic technique. He's using a pick held between the thumb/first finger (surprise!) and plays very rhythmic bass with that and independently plays melody lines or triads with the second/third/fourth fingers.

The challenge you're describing is the same one that alternating thumb fingerstyle learners go through too. In my opinion, the trick when trying to get that style together is to realise that the fingers are not operating independently of the thumb at all. They're just playing subdivisions of the same beat that the thumb is playing. So you're not trying to get them to think for themselves - or achieve independence - your just trying to be able to select at will whatever subdivision of the beat you want at any given time. And so that's how you practice.....thump that bass string and then slowly add more subdivisions. It's a different psychology - really made a difference for me when I was learning travis picking etc

TheBigDipper · October 2017

Lewy said:

TheBigDipper said:

I don't. At the mo I'm struggling with trying to adopt the Richard Thompson right hand acoustic technique. He's using a pick held between the thumb/first finger (surprise!) and plays very rhythmic bass with that and independently plays melody lines or triads with the second/third/fourth fingers.

The challenge you're describing is the same one that alternating thumb fingerstyle learners go through too. In my opinion, the trick when trying to get that style together is to realise that the fingers are not operating independently of the thumb at all. They're just playing subdivisions of the same beat that the thumb is playing. So you're not trying to get them to think for themselves - or achieve independence - your just trying to be able to select at will whatever subdivision of the beat you want at any given time. And so that's how you practice.....thump that bass string and then slowly add more subdivisions. It's a different psychology - really made a difference for me when I was learning travis picking etc

You might well be right. I only have this issue when I'm holding a pick - using bare fingers or a thumbpick are fine. It's when I lose my first finger to hold the plectrum that I struggle.

thomasross20 · October 2017

Wis @Lewy

BigLicks67 · October 2017

Depends what you mean by slap?
I like the slapped harmonics as used by Michael Hedges ( but I've never really pursued it as a technique) and the aggressive Bert Jansch style of plucking the strings so they slap against the fretboard, such as on Black Waterside.

The only time I slap the strings is when I've got the Bass out.

The techniques I tend to work on are basics like alternate thumb which I've always found difficult and string skipping with plectrum when trying Bluegrass style melodies/pieces. Sometimes I'll play Bach with a plectrum as an exercise.

The other thing with finger style on steel strings is trying to get a good tone out of the high E and B strings, as they can sound a bit thin when using nails or fingertips.

thomasross20 · October 2017

Just watched the Richard Thompson video.. ooh I never knew he played like that. I'd much prefer to stick to thumb for that sort of playing unless I knew there'd be some louder chords coming in (I do that on "Cold as Ice," for example). Would love to see more vids of you guys playing acoustic!

Jimbro66 · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

Just watched the Richard Thompson video.. ooh I never knew he played like that. I'd much prefer to stick to thumb for that sort of playing unless I knew there'd be some louder chords coming in (I do that on "Cold as Ice," for example). Would love to see more vids of you guys playing acoustic!

Interesting because I think his technique in the video is the only way of achieving that balance of driving bass with higher string fills. Just using thumb or thumbpick is unlikely (but perhaps not impossible) to give the same degree of drive. I use a thumbpick most the time, a Herco Flat-thumbpick, but I would still hold it between thumb and forefinger hybrid-style to achieve what he is doing in that vid.

It's a very useable technique but not one I think of as having anything to do with the slapping style.

thomasross20 · October 2017

I don't think the poster was intimating that it was "slap" style

Fyi I don't even use a thumb pick. Nether does Tommy Emmanuel. The difference is.. he can play the guitar

Jimbro66 · October 2017

Tommy who?

Oh, you mean this fella......

ToneControl · October 2017

the percussive thing is a gimmick, and as such it can get tedious very quickly
and the real test is: does it in any way replace a drummer? The answer is not in any way at all.

Jimbro66 · October 2017

ToneControl said:

the percussive thing is a gimmick, and as such it can get tedious very quickly
and the real test is: does it in any way replace a drummer? The answer is not in any way at all.

Agreed. But in fairness because it is nearly always an acoustic guitar technique they are not really trying to replace a drummer. They just like a bit of slap and tickle

Jimbro66 · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

Fyi I don't even use a thumb pick. Nether does Tommy Emmanuel. The difference is.. he can play the guitar

Now that's interesting that you should say that. Being such a highly skilled player I've no doubt that he can freely use any combination of fingers, thumbpick and flatpick but on the several occasions I have seen him he has mainly used thumbpick. He also does on the You Tube vids of his best known tunes like Classical Gas, the Beatles Medley and Somewhere Over The Rainbow. Get a thumbpick and you'll be playing as well as him in next to no time

BTW I blame Tommy for all this percussive stuff - if he hadn't started it all with his aboriginal slapping and scratching.............

thomasross20 · October 2017

Ah yes I've seen him use them lots! But also not! And I remember many interviews where he says he often just likes to use his thumb. I need to try some more thumb picks out..

Bucket · October 2017

Anyone slating this style of playing - watch this and come back to me.

Beautiful.

thomasross20 · October 2017

No slating it.. just think it gets bland after listening to it for a long while, and wondered if anybody else actually did similar in terms of playing style.

That video, though... it's not what I was talking about.

He's mainly doing fingerstyle and what I'd do is sing over the top as well. That's all good in my book!

AliGorie · October 2017

the only thing I do is a 'snare' thwak usually 2nd + 4th bears John Martin made me do it -
like AMcK is doing above but unlike them my hr ring finger fires out from the heal of my palm and makes contact across the middle of the string spread as opposed to JM's and AMcK base of thumb hitting the bass strings.
Something thats never addressed is the quality of the tap / slap timbre, given the fuss thats made about guitar tone.
On the Jake Morley vid - awful noise on the lower bout slap, again 2 & 4 beats it's enough to spoil an otherwise good performance, just ask a percussionist what they think of it.
I'm not interested in how it's done or what it's done on - I listen to the music - very very little guitar music makes it to my car - where I can solely concentrate on IT.
Other than the skill involved much of the actual music (composition content and form) reminds of either synthesizer or american tv theme music from te '70 / 80's
Oh, the Rich Thompson flat picking with fingers is pretty much standard technique for cluster arpeggiated chords / mixed with lead or bass line playing.

Bucket · October 2017

I've been taught a little by this guy, who came into ICMP to show us how to do it (meaning I have a limited ability to play in this style, but not with much confidence). He's killer though:

I didn't know he could sing as well until I found this video. Does it all at once - very impressive.

Jimbro66 · October 2017

Bucket said:

Anyone slating this style of playing - watch this and come back to me.

As @thomasross20 said, no-one is slating anything. Andy McKee is just using a good honest John Martyn Slap. Nothing wrong with that. It adds rhythm and can be very effective behind the vocals of a solo artist.

If I've understood correctly the OP is interested in who here plays that alternative percussive guitar style that is quite removed from regular finger-style guitar and is generally without vocals. As I said earlier, it's a style that other guitarists seem to enthuse about or immensely dislike. No right or wrong - just opinions.

thomasross20 · October 2017

Much better with the singing - it's brilliant you get the chance to learn from these guys!!

You got it, @Jimbro66 !
I just wondered who actually went in for that style of playing.

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