Humidity and good acoustic guitars

DevonChris · August 2017

I live near Dartmoor in Devon and we get more than our fair share of rain. I also live in a Victorian house with a cellar, which is a bit damp, but generally not too bad.

I haven't measured the humidity in our house, but it must be higher than the average modern UK home.

I'm keen to get a good acoustic guitar at the Martin/Furch/Gibson level, but could higher than average humidity levels be a problem for a good acoustic guitar like that?

I'd appreciate your thoughts. Thanks

Teyeplayer · August 2017

I don't see why it should stop you getting a pro quality acoustic as there are plenty of other musicians living in the south west who also own and play quality guitars. You've also got the wonderful Brooke guitars up towards Okehampton. So living near Dartmoor shouldn't put you off.

At most you may need to be mindful of how you store the guitar. Perhaps keep it in its case with a humidifier?

I may be wrong but I believe the humidity issue relates more to dramatic changes in humidity (such as moving from one part of the US to another) than living in a fairly constant level of humidity. Although willing to be told I'm wrong on this by someone more knowledgeable.

digitalkettle · August 2017

Better to be higher humidity rather than lower.

Run a *de*humidifer in the vicinity...buy a hygrometer so you can keep your eye on it...keep it in its case if required.

Sassafras · August 2017

It's the extreme changes from humid to dry that can cause damage. Not normally a problem in the UK.

DevonChris · August 2017

Thanks for all your replies, which are reassuring. Thinking about it, my daughter plays cello and there are no problems with that in the house.

I did'nt want to spend £'s on an acoustic and then get it damaged with humidity issues.

I like the ideas about storing it in the case with a humidifier.

@Teyeplayer ; - what have you done! Those Brooke guitars look fantastic and they are not far from me. I love the look of the Teign, but a new one would cost about £3k

Teyeplayer · August 2017

Being from the area myself originally, I have a somewhat romanticised view that one day I should own a Brooke and it will be like coming home.

Keep an eye on the secondhand market @DevonChris they do come up for under 2k and if you intend to spend what i suspect is in the region of 1200-1800 on a guitar, for the extra outlay you get something that is a cut above a mass produced instrument (says he that loves his Martin).

Teyeplayer · August 2017

I should add though, that the secondhand market for Martin Gibson etc at the moment is a buyers dream, no reason why you shouldn't pick something fantastic up for under 1k.

DevonChris · August 2017

Teyeplayer said:

Being from the area myself originally, I have a somewhat romanticised view that one day I should own a Brooke and it will be like coming home.

Keep an eye on the secondhand market @DevonChris they do come up for under 2k and if you intend to spend what i suspect is in the region of 1200-1800 on a guitar, for the extra outlay you get something that is a cut above a mass produced instrument (says he that loves his Martin).

That means I ought to go for the Tavy as I live in Tavistock, but I prefer a dread style.

You are correct, I was thinking of £1k - 2k budget, and there are some superb guitars being sold on this forum for that. I'll have to give the Brooke guitars some thought. It would be awesome to buy such a great guitar from a local Devon luthier.

It's good to know that there won't be issues with damp - Okehampton gets more rain than Tavistock, which you probably know.

mgaw · August 2017

Hi i live in north cornwall on the coast near bude and never had any issues, i certainly wouldn't worry about it too much..also check out a guy called James Millman in Bideford, theres a man who knows how to build superb Sounding acoustics, which seems to allude a few of the so called boutique makers to varying degrees

Teyeplayer · August 2017

Sure there was a thread on here recently by someone who had popped in on the workshop and tried a variety of guitars out. I believe Brooke are very accommodating.

You'll note ofcourse that I am a GAS facilitator.

DevonChris · August 2017

mgaw said:

Hi i live in north cornwall on the coast near bude and never had any issues, i certainly wouldn't worry about it too much..also check out a guy called James Millman in Bideford, theres a man who knows how to build superb Sounding acoustics, which seems to allude a few of the so called boutique makers to varying degrees

Good suggestion about James Millman. I see that he used to work at Brook Guitars Thanks

Teyeplayer said:

Sure there was a thread on here recently by someone who had popped in on the workshop and tried a variety of guitars out. I believe Brooke are very accommodating.

You'll note ofcourse that I am a GAS facilitator.

I'd better put you on my ignore list quickly (if there is one)

Thanks for your help, though.

mgaw · August 2017

@DevonChris yep James Millman also spent a good deal of his time early on with Andy Manson. the Millman guitars are great sounding things, far better than Brooks IMHO, worth checking out.. I know James and this in no way has influenced my judgement of his guitars:)

DevonChris · August 2017

mgaw said:

@DevonChris yep James Millman also spent a good deal of his time early on with Andy Manson. the Millman guitars are great sounding things, far better than Brooks IMHO, worth checking out.. I know James and this in no way has influenced my judgement of his guitars:)

Just been checking up on Brooks - they have a great reputation so if James Millman is making better guitars, I definitely need to contact him.

I'm looking for a long term acoustic so I'm going to spend some time trying to find the right one. I've had my Strat for 11 years and that isn't going anywhere so it would be awesome to find an acoustic that I feel as good about and want to keep.

I really appreciate everyone's help in this thread - it has taken a bit of an unexpected turn though!

AliGorie · August 2017

Chris, I live on the uk west coast rh <> in the 80's +, I have a 20 yr old bourgeois and a 30 yr old lowden and other guitars. my wife likes the windows open so thats the ambient rh my guitars have existed in for all that time - NEVER an issue.
Sure instruments react to the moisture in the atmosphere, they may swell slightly or not sound quite so 'crisp' but the problems they have in the US and elsewhere in particular with the excessively LOW rh have been imported via the internet - oh no u might have to move from that damp Victorian house to a new build brown brick estate to save your guitars

.

Lewy · August 2017

AliGorie said:

Chris, I live on the uk west coast rh <> in the 80's +, I have a 20 yr old bourgeois and a 30 yr old lowden and other guitars. my wife likes the windows open so thats the ambient rh my guitars have existed in for all that time - NEVER an issue.
Sure instruments react to the moisture in the atmosphere, they may swell slightly or not sound quite so 'crisp'

Or another way of looking at it might be that if you've spent thousand of pounds on an exquisitely made guitar, you might choose to invest a tiny bit of effort to control humidity and ensure it plays and sounds it's best all the time rather than accept sub optimal playability or tone.

DevonChris · August 2017

AliGorie said:

Chris, I live on the uk west coast rh <> in the 80's +, I have a 20 yr old bourgeois and a 30 yr old lowden and other guitars. my wife likes the windows open so thats the ambient rh my guitars have existed in for all that time - NEVER an issue.
Sure instruments react to the moisture in the atmosphere, they may swell slightly or not sound quite so 'crisp' but the problems they have in the US and elsewhere in particular with the excessively LOW rh have been imported via the internet - oh no u might have to move from that damp Victorian house to a new build brown brick estate to save your guitars .

Ha ha - I don't thinking moving from the house for the sake of an acoustic would go down well

Lewy said:

AliGorie said:

Chris, I live on the uk west coast rh <> in the 80's +, I have a 20 yr old bourgeois and a 30 yr old lowden and other guitars. my wife likes the windows open so thats the ambient rh my guitars have existed in for all that time - NEVER an issue.
Sure instruments react to the moisture in the atmosphere, they may swell slightly or not sound quite so 'crisp'

Or another way of looking at it might be that if you've spent thousand of pounds on an exquisitely made guitar, you might choose to invest a tiny bit of effort to control humidity and ensure it plays and sounds it's best all the time rather than accept sub optimal playability or tone.

Yep - good point. Thanks

AliGorie · August 2017

ok, ok - get a damp sooker and a Furch
happy pickin

DevonChris · August 2017

AliGorie said:

ok, ok - get a damp sooker and a Furch
happy pickin

Good suggestion - I really like the couple of Furch guitars I've played in the past and there is a used D34SR in a guitar shop near me available that I've had my eye on for a while.

MagicPigDetective · August 2017

I too live in a victorian house with a cellar and single glazed windows; it rains a lot here and it's pretty humid inside. I keep it in a room which is not always heated. I have a Taylor 114; I don't keep it in a case as I have no case, just a soft one. Apart from it needing a little turn of the truss rod occasionally I havent noticed any impact, though perhaps having laminated sides reduces humidity effects? And I haven't gone a full winter with it yet so we shall see.

DevonChris · August 2017

Thanks, @MagicPigDetective Our daughters cello is fine in our house and it has survived several winters, but we don't take it into our celler rooms. It is made with thicker wood than acoustic guitar, though.

I've drawn a lot confidence from this thread that a good acoustic would be fine in our house, but I will keep it in a case with a humidifier, just to be sure.

digitalkettle · August 2017

It sounds like, potentially, your humidity is too high...so I'm not sure you need to humidify the case...certainly something I've never done. Get a digital hygrometer so you can get an idea of where you're at...mainly for peace of mind.

DevonChris · August 2017

digitalkettle said:

It sounds like, potentially, your humidity is too high...so I'm not sure you need to humidify the case...certainly something I've never done. Get a digital hygrometer so you can get an idea of where you're at...mainly for peace of mind.

Will do. Thanks. They're only about £10 on Amazon. Do you know what reading would be too high?
Cheers

digitalkettle · August 2017

DevonChris said:

digitalkettle said:

It sounds like, potentially, your humidity is too high...so I'm not sure you need to humidify the case...certainly something I've never done. Get a digital hygrometer so you can get an idea of where you're at...mainly for peace of mind.

Will do. Thanks. They're only about £10 on Amazon. Do you know what reading would be too high?
Cheers

Somewhere between 50-60% is ideal...a cheap gauge will only give you a rough idea...it usually aligns with common sense, e.g. dry windy day or snowy with the heating on = low humidity...warm rainy day = high humidity...etc. Too high? I'm not sure but it might be the day your guitar starts sounding/feeling less lively. I don't overthink it.

My house is old and temperature swings in colder months...I run a dehumidifier most of the time just to stay on top of things.

I've got a couple of acoustics out on stands at the moment as I'm lazy and temperature is fairly steady 24/7...once that changes, they go in cases. One's a classical and one's a steel string...I've only had the truss rod adjusted once or twice after a rare trip to a tech.

DevonChris · August 2017

Thank you, @digitalkettle I've ordered a digital hygrometer now so it'll be interesting to see what our actual levels are.

crunchman · August 2017

The big problem is normally when the air gets too dry in winter.

Relative humidity is dependent on air temperature. Hot air can hold a lot more water than cold air. In winter this means that there is a lot less water vapour in the air.

If you take that cold air with less moisture content, and heat it with central heating you can end up with very low relative humidity indoors in the winter. That is normally what causes issues with cracking.

It is very dependent on the difference in temperature between inside and outside. In Devon, it's surrounded by warmer sea water in winter so it doesn't get silly cold. As long as you don't run your central heating at a ridiculously high temperature you should be fine.

DevonChris · August 2017

Thanks, @crunchman, for such a detailed comment. You are correct about the weather in Devon and the effect of the sea on keeping an even temperature - it very rarely snows here.

I received the hygrometer from Amazon today and it showed 63% humidity at 22 degrees C this afternoon. That is probably a bit higher than the average modern home in the UK, but I don't think it is cause for concern.

As you and others have said, it is the lack of humidity and the change in temperatures that damage acoustic guitars.

Teyeplayer · August 2017

Just noticed this in the classifieds and thought it might be of interest to you as you'd mentioned a furch:
http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/111770/fs-furch-stonebridge-d22-cm-and-schertler-amplifier#latest

fishfingers · September 2017

@crunchman, is quite right - I've used several digital hygrometers over the years in my northwest Victorian semi. 50-65% in summer and down to 35% in winter when the central heating is on. I have had a crack through humidity problems with one guitar, but that was while living in NZ!

guycp · September 2017

Our house (old granite farmhouse in far West of Cornwall) always has high humidity! A wet summer is worse. Currently at 78% in my office/music room.
I have had Bourgeois, Martins, and Gibsons and Santa Cruz that have been adversely affected by high humidity. Higher humidity is not normally a problem for cheaper heavier braced or laminated acoustic guitars, but can be a big problem for hand built guitars that were built in workshops with 35 -45% humidity (i.e. many hand made high end acoustics made in the USA). Not only do the tops swell up altering the action and distorting the top around the bridge, but the guitars loose their tone and can become woolly and dead sounding.
Best to get a decent de-humidifier and put it in the same room as the guitars and keep the door shut. I do this and manage to keep the humidity down to around 60%. I also use re-useable cotton bags of silica in each guitar case, which change colour when wet.
I've found that the best option for damp conditions is to have a room with a dehumidifier that you store your guitars in.
Also get a decent hydrometer so you can keep an eye on the humidity level.
Low humidity is not normally a problem in the UK

digitalkettle · September 2017

guycp said:

Also get a decent hydrometer so you can keep an eye on the humidity level.

Hy*g*rometer!

Lewy · September 2017

guycp said:

Our house (old granite farmhouse in far West of Cornwall) always has high humidity! A wet summer is worse. Currently at 78% in my office/music room.
I have had Bourgeois, Martins, and Gibsons and Santa Cruz that have been adversely affected by high humidity. Higher humidity is not normally a problem for cheaper heavier braced or laminated acoustic guitars, but can be a big problem for hand built guitars that were built in workshops with 35 -45% humidity (i.e. many hand made high end acoustics made in the USA). Not only do the tops swell up altering the action and distorting the top around the bridge, but the guitars loose their tone and can become woolly and dead sounding.

My experience exactly.

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Humidity and good acoustic guitars

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